Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
03-31-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #1
Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
Possibility of being better off to pay cash for a ISX with high miles and have it worked on right away... Versus buying a low mile ISX that may already be infected with problems.

Just reading/watching on lot on the ISX. Companies doing things like extended oil drains, screwing around with water temp sensors, bad or none existent engine/emission maintenance, wrong settings for engine model put in by a dealership, etc.

Just kindof makes me thing that while no guarantee of anything, it could be smarter to pay cash for a higher mileage truck, and have in-frame/overhaul, @m*m^2'd, etc. From that point I guess it would be about putting the rest of the truck's components (clutches, axle spindles, etc) on a replacement schedule and going from there.

btw i have about $33,000 (CAD) saved up now that i could probably buy a low-tier truck with. I'm pretty good at hitting phone books and auctions. I like the idea of having a paid-for truck, and owing my bank some in-frame money.

This would be my first truck.
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04-01-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #2
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
It's a tough call because more times then not, a miled out truck with a wore motor is going to be a serious headache. You could borrow money to give you a beautiful motor and the thing could Nickel and dime you to death. As rawze has stated before, noone sells a truck that's making them money.


User's Signature: I'm no mechanic, I'm just a guy that breaks down enough to know a bit.
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 Thanks given by: Waterloo , Sledge
04-01-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #3
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
I like your thinking. Don't be swooned buy fleet maintenance. There's a reason fleets get rid of their trucks with low miles. Odds are a truck with more miles might already have had a inframe. Not to say it's going to live like it should but maybe make some money with it and then inframe it. Don't get into debt. I've learned the hard way. Work for yourself not the banker. If you really check the engine out good you might find that older sleeper that's had major work done but no paper trail to back it up. Don't trust a dealer blow by test. Especially if it's super good. It wasn't done right. It's a gamble but at least it's your money and not someone else's. Hard to screw up to bad if you own it.
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 Thanks given by: Waterloo , in2trux , Sledge
04-01-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #4
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
I have seen lots of guys buy used trucks and do very well with them. You just have to do it "smartly" and investigate well what condition the engine and truck are in during the purchase. This would include pulling engine cover and inspecting cams, drive train, suspension, ensuring it is geared and spec'd for your intentions, etc, and not just looking at the paint job and interior.

Either case, spending the bulk of your doe just to get into a truck is not often a good business decision. Hang onto your money so that you can deal with all the unexpected shortcomings. Keep your monthly payments low so your not in a pickle, having to run like a bat out of hell just to keep up. The rule of thumb I tell others is that if you can't make your business model work on an average of about 1800 - 2200 miles a week and slowing down a tiny bit (say driving 63 mph) , then your going to be working very hard just to make it work. - Most people struggle badly and many fail when outside of that zone, especially on their first truck purchase. Don't start a foot race by shooting yourself in the big toe the day before the race. Don't run your first marathon against all the seasoned veterans who know how to pace themselves expecting to do better. It simply is not going to happen. The wheel of success has already been invented, stop trying to invent your own. Instead, follow those as closely as possible the ones who are the most successful. Once you are where they are, and are just as successful, that is when you can apply your own ideas and can have breathing room to get creative.

Rawze Wrote:I equate that way of thinking to someone trying to get from A to B as fast as they can, -- pushing their truck as hard as it will go along the muddy road. They are trying with all their might to get somewhere, spinning tires and not getting very far, frustrated as all hell, driving all day in that mud, it holding them back and slowing them down. ---- All while getting mad and ignoring everyone around them trying to help them, calling them fools who can't possibly understand their situation. - They simply refuse to look around and see that the road they are driving on is in fact the ditch along side the freeway.

Don't get caught up in this life-cycle I see over and over....
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...18#pid6718


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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 Thanks given by: Brock , Waterloo , in2trux , axe , Sledge , gatow900
04-01-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #5
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
If you do step over the edge and buy a truck... Who will you work for? I am sure you will more than likely lease on to a carrier? Don't believe a word they say in regards to rates or weekly mileage. Trucking is very cyclical, what is true today will not be true tomorrow. An honest company will be honest with you in this regard, sadly there are few out here. My phone is ringing off of the hook right now from two outfits I used to work for. They are not calling due to a sudden uptick in freight volume, they are calling because their drivers are quitting due to lousy rates and little if any freight... Keep that in mind when researching a carrier or even the one you are currently working for, especially if they have a mix of company and lease trucks. If you go with a dedicated route, that has it's own set of issues too...

Then we have your mechanical skills... Can you wrench on a truck? I'm not talking about an in frame in your driveway, just general maintanence stuff. And do you have the tools? These shops are getting pretty outrageous in their hourly rates, around here they are hitting $165 an hour. I think the average is around $130 to $135 an hour at most of the stealerships depending on their location. That is to rich for my blood, and monies I am using to buy tools... I just ordered another tool box from Home Depot, LOL!

Twenty years ago this was a fun racket, and you could make some good money out here, I did... But now, I would not recommend anyone buy a truck, no matter how much I hate them, especially a new one... There is no shortage of trucks out here, or drivers for that matter. The industry is over saturated with both.
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 Thanks given by: Rawze , in2trux , Magard , axe , Brock , Vin , Sledge
04-02-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #6
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
(04-01-2017 )Waterloo Wrote:  a)
If you do step over the edge and buy a truck... Who will you work for? I am sure you will more than likely lease on to a carrier?
b) Don't believe a word they say in regards to rates or weekly mileage. Trucking is very cyclical, what is true today will not be true tomorrow. An honest company will be honest with you in this regard, sadly there are few out here. My phone is ringing off of the hook right now from two outfits I used to work for. They are not calling due to a sudden uptick in freight volume, they are calling because their drivers are quitting due to lousy rates and little if any freight... Keep that in mind when researching a carrier or even the one you are currently working for, especially if they have a mix of company and lease trucks.

c) If you go with a dedicated route, that has it's own set of issues too...

d) Then we have your mechanical skills... Can you wrench on a truck? I'm not talking about an in frame in your driveway, just general maintanence stuff. And do you have the tools? These shops are getting pretty outrageous in their hourly rates, around here they are hitting $165 an hour. I think the average is around $130 to $135 an hour at most of the stealerships depending on their location. That is to rich for my blood, and monies I am using to buy tools... I just ordered another tool box from Home Depot, LOL!

e) Twenty years ago this was a fun racket, and you could make some good money out here, I did... But now, I would not recommend anyone buy a truck, no matter how much I hate them, especially a new one... There is no shortage of trucks out here, or drivers for that matter. The industry is over saturated with both.

a) A good Canadian company for 6 years.
b) I am on a dedicated freight lane for automotive parts for, doing open board when the plants shut down for maintenance. 5100-6100 miles bi-weekly, if I want to work an extra day or not.
c) Could you expand on what you meant by
"complications" of a dedicated route?
d) There is a shop down my street that does a lot of work with vocational trucks and my Company also has shop. I do intend to do the simpler stuff myself, and learn how to diagnose problems.

e) I am 31, so I can't vouch for the job market 20 years ago. Maybe they're aren't any good jobs anymore. But at least with trucking I can be more valuable by owning my own equipment. I don't need a part time job to work 60 hours a week, I can just do more hours on the full time job I already have.
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04-02-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #7
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
(04-01-2017 )Rawze Wrote:  a) I have seen lots of guys buy used trucks and do very well with them. You just have to do it "smartly" and investigate well what condition the engine and truck are in during the purchase. This would include pulling engine cover and inspecting cams, drive train, suspension, ensuring it is geared and spec'd for your intentions, etc, and not just looking at the paint job and interior.

b) Either case, spending the bulk of your doe just to get into a truck is not often a good business decision. Hang onto your money so that you can deal with all the unexpected shortcomings.

c) Keep your monthly payments low so your not in a pickle, having to run like a bat out of hell just to keep up. The rule of thumb I tell others is that if you can't make your business model work on an average of about 1800 - 2200 miles a week and slowing down a tiny bit (say driving 63 mph) , then your going to be working very hard just to make it work. - Most people struggle badly and many fail when outside of that zone, especially on their first truck purchase.

d)Don't start a foot race by shooting yourself in the big toe the day before the race. Don't run your first marathon against all the seasoned veterans who know how to pace themselves expecting to do better. It simply is not going to happen. The wheel of success has already been invented, stop trying to invent your own. Instead, follow those as closely as possible the ones who are the most successful. Once you are where they are, and are just as successful, that is when you can apply your own ideas and can have breathing room to get creative.

Don't get caught up in this life-cycle I see over and over....
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...18#pid6718

a) I agree that buying a used truck is the way to go, my question was about the "range" of used to buy of. Colour and interior are kindof irrelevant, new paint is cheaper than new engine. Interiors are all the same, really. Gearing wise, virtually all trucks are geared for 62-65, we are speed limited by the government, and 13's rein supreme for climbing canadian rockies.

b) Thanks. That is one of the big things I've been wrestling with. I read alot of financial strategy type guys who advocate "cash for everything, I don't borrow money --ever!!--" but even if I end up paying a bit in Interest on a truck loan... I'll have the security of keeping a large chunk of cash in the bank if anything goes seriously wrong.

c) In your book you suggest that I should be able to make my payments on a 1/3rd of my miles per month. The trucks I've been considering are based on that, as a maximum.
I drive at 60 MPH even though I'm still company(65 Limit). I consider it practice along with trip profit-loss statements. I've also done trying to keep my boost at 20 PSI. Not sure exactly what the difference is between turning down the horsepower and not using it, topic for a different thread.

d) lol, this is something I'll have to put on a Post-It note and stick on my windshield. Maybe right in the middle. This is some advice that I think I'll have to beat into my own head.

I'm still going through the wealth of whats here in the forum, and waiting on a good deal as far as trucks go. So I'm gonna lurk here and there before I decide to pull the trigger on anything.
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04-02-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #8
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
(04-01-2017 )Magard Wrote:  I like your thinking. Don't be swooned buy fleet maintenance. There's a reason fleets get rid of their trucks with low miles. Odds are a truck with more miles might already have had a inframe. Not to say it's going to live like it should but maybe make some money with it and then inframe it. Don't get into debt. I've learned the hard way. Work for yourself not the banker. If you really check the engine out good you might find that older sleeper that's had major work done but no paper trail to back it up. Don't trust a dealer blow by test. Especially if it's super good. It wasn't done right. It's a gamble but at least it's your money and not someone else's. Hard to screw up to bad if you own it.

Good advice, and I think we're on the same page.
But I also think Rawze is right;
if I spend all my cash on the truck to own it outright, and have nothing for repairs left over, especially if its a cheaper truck, I could be setting myself up for a pretty big failure.
That said, I don't regret having saved up the cash, and I don't like debt either.... even if I have the cash set aside so that I know I'll be able to make the payment. But this might be one of the few times that interest payments are actually as smart thing to do.

As for fleet maintained, they should be called fleet neglected. Especially when it comes to oil changes. Independent new truck buyers have to meet the oil change criteria or void their warranty. Big Fleets negotiate to extend the oil change intervals while still be given full warranty.
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 Thanks given by: in2trux
04-02-2017, (Subject: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX ) 
Post: #9
RE: Buying older ISX truck for cash vs "fleet maintained" newer ISX
Here. Finance this, get with unilevers and don't look back, if it's still on next month then I'm buying it. Old guy has heart problem, is 65 and retiring. Reman Detroit has 500,000km



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And before anyone gets Thier panties in a knot, we're canadian and this is canadian dollars.


User's Signature: I'm no mechanic, I'm just a guy that breaks down enough to know a bit.
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