DPF core moved

[DVT873]

Just to add, the base engine is MAN, CGI block, no oil or coolant passing thru the head gasket, sealed deck on block and head. External Jumpers used between block and head for coolant and oil. Since it is in a Paystar you might actually be able to work on it! They are jammed into the ProStars with a shoehorn, Good engine until Navistar mucked up the emissions, especially EPA 10. Sad because when this engine was originally announced people with connections to Europe were standing in line to get them. Apparently over there MAN was thoughtto be a really good engine. Nav fixed that!

[flatfoot]

DVT873 - I have been advised by 2 different service departments ( IH dealers 500 miles apart) to have this engine de-rated to 450 hp from 475. There reasoning was 450 used about 30% less EGR volume and so caused fewer issues. And the 25hp is not really missed.
Do you have any thoughts or experience??

[DVT873]

I don't know if that is true or not but it makes sense. Post the VIN. I can call two people that know about keeping these mandated AND alive. They had to learn to operate these or die. I have referred a couple people to them with good success. One unit has high rail gear and a crane on it. Runs just off idle most of the day loading ties. Worst possible scenario. It has been OK for the last 20 months after a visit to one of the people I will call.

[flatfoot]

(02-23-2019 )DVT873 Wrote:  I don't know if that is true or not but it makes sense. Post the VIN. I can call two people that know about keeping these mandated AND alive. They had to learn to operate these or die. I have referred a couple people to them with good success. One unit has high rail gear and a crane on it. Runs just off idle most of the day loading ties. Worst possible scenario. It has been OK for the last 20 months after a visit to one of the people I will call.

DJ255475

[MageRoyal]

(02-20-2019 )flatfoot Wrote:  2013 IH 5900i with MaxxForce 13

failed engine. boat anchor.

sell it while it still moves.

[DVT873]

DJ255475
[/quote]
Flatfoot, very interesting set of specs. I can see why you want to keep it. Talked briefly with one of the people I want to talk to.He keeps a mixed bag off these running. Along with Cummins engines. Oilfield tankers and refuse roll offs. He agrees that the the derate to 430 helps a lot. FWIW there is a 410 rating also. Some of his are factory 430 and have noticeably fewer problems. Since your going thru an Allison you likely won't feel any difference at all driving, especially in your operation. The engine and trans computers regulate engine output very closely. He has done some detunes and demandates using a programming shop {name removed} I have no opinion on that beyond what I have seen on this forum. Because it is an automatic and your going down in HP, not up I would pursue having it done at the dealer level or at least put the change request thru to Navistar. That will get Allison involved. I would be surprised if there aren't some changes to the trans ECM. I am no expert on this engine, working mainly on the next level down but I have some people and info available to me that actually know a lot about these because that's their job. When there there are cranes, rolloffs, tankers, super suckers, packers and even more expensive specialized bodies on the back you need to figure it out. For every 80 general freight tractors out there you might find 1 set up like yours. Straight trucks are even tougher. There are NEVER to many long wheelbase heavy axles, heavy framed, lo hole geared units in the market used.

I do know for a fact that there were factory cals put in for test that reduced soot a lot, reducing EGR plugging problems. I assume that NoX went sky high. None of the ones I knew of were left in. There may have been some exceptions for emergency vehicles.

Here is a link that explains how part of this mess came to be. I have met the subject of the article personally and have sat in quite a few meetings he spoke at or led. The article confirms my first impressions. He is an arrogant, opinionated, strong willed, skinny, well tanned short tempered person. Also very well dressed. Very much like another skinny more well known figure who was reputed to be another arrogant prick to work for. Two differences. Steve J was not as sharp a dresser and his products worked.

Navistar lost a lot of good people in the time frame of the article. They were either fired, forced into retirement or quit. To disagree was to die. The engine team was more than decimated. The word decimated comes from a quaint Roman Legion tradition. When a legion screwed up usually by losing, every tenth survivor was killed to refocus the concentration of the rest. Old school motivation!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller...5833086fbb

[flatfoot]

DVT873 - Thanks for posting that Forbes link. Found it very interesting!

[Rawze]

(02-24-2019 )DVT873 Wrote:  ...
detunes and demandates using a programming shop
...

Gearheads shop in PA does maxfarts. He's likely the only one (or possibly unilevers may have worked with him on it, but not sure) doing them with a program that is known to be 100% trusted. He spent many months working with the the maxfart + spent a lot of dyno time and much testing to getting the programming to same high standard of quality as what latest MM does with the red engines.

Even so, he will still tell you that they are inferior to other brands of engines overall, and are problematic in their design, even if you get the emissions off them. There is good reason the used truck market is flooded with those boat anchors. A few people here and there claim they had decent luck with them, but they are the rare exception, not the rule.

I don't work on or with them, so if you want some opinion/info towards this, I would suggest you get a hold of gearhead (or possibly mr.hag) who HAS worked on them extensively for some factual info and not just here-say.

[flatfoot]

DVT873 - Would you or maybe your contacts have any insight into what if anything was done to used ProStar/MaxxForce's that were sold and shipped to Vietnam. Only makes sense that NaviStar had to do some update/or backdate to these "problem trucks" to make the sale.