rebuild vs swap decisions
08-13-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #1
rebuild vs swap decisions
All right friends lets get some thoughts on this subject if yall dont mind
I have a cm2350 2014 550/1850
demandated with 588k on it
i have had nothing but problems all year starting with full dfp scr failure system $4800.00 so i was force to make a bad call getting me a bad delete tattoo $2600.00and being followed in two months later by a horrible 11 days on the side of I90 with fuel system failure $4200.00 where my knuckle busting time and a little help from Mr Hagg helped out
i was followed by pilot bearing, throw out bearing ujoints and carrier bearing, slip yoke and balance of the drive line had to all be done
i had clutch kit everything above done for $6000.00
but there is also something like else wrong i need to find while do this swap
this is all leading me up to here and now issues
i went down about 5 weeks ago and made it home and replaced my charge air cooler $700.00 and put new gaskets in turbo manifold $300.00 and my last few dollars had went into rebuilding my turbo he400vg that isnt available to the public from cummins so i had to rebuild it my self and it turned out great for $1048.00 . fired it up and after sitting 4 weeks in the heat, man was the motor dry sounding for a few mins .after a little while i shut it down and started cleaning up my mess . i went back with insite to get codes cleared up and watch some things . everything was looking good till i started hearing a loud tapping uper end towards cylinder 2 . killed it thought i better recheck my over head .exhaust was a little tight and jakes were pretty lose , intake was also just a tad lose.back together we went to find the same sound just about half as loud on my test drive #1 to town and back #2 of the 35 miles round trip.
i think i had a jake stuck from maybe a cloged oil way to it because i ran some of the insite test and all was good and passed other than leak down test that didnt pass in my eyes .cylinder cut out passed on each one running the same all the way across the board down to a single cylinder and everything was great "WAS" back to the test drive #1
after about 17 miles test drive #1 i stopped and surprisingly the sound was gone and damn she sounded better than ever before so im was all excited to get back out there working .#2 back to the camper i went.
next morning went to get my flatbed and went i started ole blue, up and wow was i surprised in bad way .
little bit of back pressure coming out of the breathers puff puff puff like it was missing or not detonating properly, i thought maybe maybe I pushed a liner lose when i first started it was a thought with that being said i dont think my tune is fully proper yet and with the exhaust back pressure now around 130 at idle 700rpm to intake pressure at 1.5-1.8 from a day prior the were with in the 2:1 ratios but now dies on cut out test on 2 cyilders and i got coolant leaking from the egr cooler clamp on the back end out it ....(note:there is the proper block plate between the manifold and egr cooler and after the egr valve just before the crossover pipe to the intake )
i did block test and its showing combustion gasses in the coolant .GREAT i thought well that is it im out im broke and no way to make it up. called the bank and said well where you want this pyle of problems left i have done all i can and all be damn they ended up getting it together and told me they would be better off with giving me the approval to get the money to fix it and keep me in the game . not knowing where to go from here and risking more money stress and more BS for the enjoyment of moving freight for what seems to be charity money for parts and fun times of living broke and broke down .
so here i sit and think i can do this how ever i got one more shot to save this business.

I have come to hate this motor ! and done screwing with it and to get caught up its going to have be a solid swap or rebuild where i can make a come back .
so my thoughts are lets take this cm2350 out and let the dog piss on it
and go back with a cm871 , have a bearing kit put in the tranny and do wheel-bearing and possibly change out the 3.36 ass end to a 3.55's.and get this blue angel the exorcism and rid her of her demons where we can make a run at saving our ass before i say screw it and take the camper and move to the cool mountains and whittle sticks and sell tooth picks and give up .
gonna be pulling a Conestoga going back out to work
so question who and were do i get a good cm871 that i can count on and have some warranty
any experiences with these guys ill list below??

{name removed}

and i know i want a demandated motor im done with that crap to
so gearhead mr hagg is best option yes but i dont know that i can get to them and if i can
if i can afford it shipped and get it done in time to save it
or these gliders engine kits are an option with warranty .
I appericate any one that takes the time to read this long ordeal and i apologize in advance for the story but best i tell it before the questions start flying .
ready set go
thanks guys
replyreply
 Thanks given by: Waterloo
08-13-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #2
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
your story is not unique, not one damn bit....

It is a journey...

A journey towards wise decision making and truck ownership.

It is clear that you have made some bad decisions, and that has lead to a lot of the problems you have seen, and now face... but it is not without its education.

In this day of modern trucking, you would have had no less problems out of anything else you would have purchased, and even if you already had an 871 it sounds like.

The question is now, not how to go backwards in time ... not to get something older and start this screwed up journey all over again ... but....


to move forward and stop making bad decisions .. and if for one damn minute you disagree then stop for a moment and ask yourself if Rawze would have had those same problems and would have been broke and ending up in those shoes ... YOU HAD BETTER DAMN WELL KNOW I WOULD NOT HAVE .... why?


Because I choose not to let it!.

and if one man can do it,,.. so can another!... i am no one special at all.

I do so by being very very diligent + professional in how i treat my equipment, how I drive, and how often I give my equipment inspections and take things apart BEFORE they fail. -- I am always researching and educating myself on my truck and its operations + ensuring that every damn screw and bolt and weld and system on my truck is in top shape every single time it comes home for a few days. It is a constant effort that does not stop.

And there are a lot of people who scoff at me for driving only 55-60 and not beating the hell out of my equipment and all the other things I do like scream to not have big HP setting, scoff at me for baing slow up the hills and driving with only 15 lbs boost, ... but by-god, every single of those people,.. when they are on the side of the roads,. or in that repair shop getting yet another new shocks, and another set of new suspension components, and clutches, and engine re-builds,,.. I am driving by them and smiling silently, making 2x the profit every time, because I choose not to let these road-ways out here beat the hell out of what I got to make that money.

-- That is how we make money we keep out here,.. there really is no other way long term any more for making profits unless we keep after these things diligently, and consistently + invest and save money in between for that rainy day.

More than 80% of what breaks on these modern engines and trucks can be predicted ... and planned for ... and since that is so,.. can be prevented or caught before it costs you 10x more money than it should. It is a matter of education and diligence. <- without this, it is nothing but a constant battle that a person will eventually loose.

(though you may not agree with it), that being said ...

-- You now stand further in your trucking career and business and now know a lot of those mistakes and how to prevent most of this by now.

There is no glory in taking any shortcuts, or waiting until something breaks or wears out, nor is there any profit in it. -< I am that one guy in the truck stop parking lot with half the side of his truck and engine apart while taking my 70-hr weekend break ... All while the other 300+ morons sitting there watching me and making fun of me watch like idiots... Only for later in the week, my truck is still running and theirs is nothing but problems on the side of the road somewhere.

I am happy to be that idiot .. it makes me some damn decent money!.

Personally, I would get that thing somehow to Mr. Hags, even if you had to bobtail it with a rag over the coolant tank so that coolant does not get into the cylinders. -- Have that piece of equipment that have already heavily invested in, on its way to be fixed properly instead of chasing pipe dreams of a better life (that will land you in a repeating cycle) .. because if you can't make what you already have invested in work,.. nothing else is going to be any better, you might as well be better off as a company driver for someone else,... at least you will have a paycheck.

Actually personally, if my truck were in such dire straights and I had to take it to someone else,.. you had better damn believe my arsse would be under the hood and truck right there with them doing whatever I knew how to help and get it going again + all the rest of the things plaguing the equipment while I was at it... There is no reward for half a truck with only half its health except to end up on the end of a tow hook once again.

and lastly... HOW OFTEN ARE YOU FILLING ONE OF THESE REPORTS OUT / WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOUR TRUCK WOULD PASS THIS INSPECTION/MAINT REPORT (adapted to your truck and engine model) ???
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...0#pid26680

Owning a truck is not for everyone .. ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid19465 : but for those who decide to,.. it always is hard until we get to that point of mastering it.

-- That is my take on it ... no one has to agree.


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
replyreply
 Thanks given by: Baco74 , Waterloo , flatbed94kid , Ironsled , Pd6cas2
08-14-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #3
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
I understand what you are saying here Rawze and I appreciate you taking the time to read and reply on it .
I agree with you on taking care of your equipment and the standards that is best upheld in order for the truck to be tip top shape to maximize profits and not to mention the safety us and everyone and or their family around us on the roads .

theres a lot more to my story and the roads and decisions I have made to get this far . I Have not been in this industry as long as your self and a lot of others here Im sure and just like every anything there has been lessons learned along the way .

Have I made mistakes you bet I have and Im hard as hell on my self and will be the first to tell anyone where I have screwed up and the lessons learned from those mistakes .

Do I wish that I came across the forum and your book before I started owning a truck HELL YES theres a lot of info here and good people that are will to share to help one be successful in the industry and you made a lot of great points in your book and i have referred back to it on a number of times .

I did in fact jump off into owning a truck and this business to early looking back
I would have been more successful had I waited and learned more to help make better decision in the beginning and through out this journey and I wont try and justify any of the mistakes I have made for my own self esteem or anyones opinion about me.I see that as a waste of time and in the end I stand alone the to deal with the repercussions good or bad .

I respect the hell out of you Rawze and appericate your kindness to share the info and knowledge for anyone willing to dig deep enough find solutions to issues or so that one doesnt end up with a repair bill when it could be a preventable maintenance costing less in the beginning VS the end.
Yes there many stories/journeys probably much worse than my own mine isnt special at all like you said and Im capable of making it just as well as the next guy.

About cutting corners hoping to make it longer to squeeze two nickels out of a dime to get further down the line I agree with you dont do it fix the problem the right way the first time .
Ive always said since I was old enough to understand what my Old Man told me growing up
"IF ITS WORTH DOING, ITS WORTH DOING RIGHT THE FIRST TIME"
The only thing I have go to comment on within my post and similar post on the board that I feel could come or would be taken in any negative way is that though not every ones story is the same song and dance and not every one will have the money to do the things needing to be done right the first time and with obligations that must be met in order to keep something .
Everyone here knows just how expensive Trucks and the things needing to be fixed and at what cost we must take to be able to do them.
Thats why I too am like you if my equipment is ever in the shop witch is very very rarely due to the fact I have dont everything I can my self before I pay someone else to do it because owning a Truck means everything to do with that or your Business is our Job and until one makes enough and saves enough can they choose to make the call and pay some one else to work on all of it but Im sure there people out there if in that positions that they probably don't check the shops work and or portray the expectations they have when the hire some one .
I'm that respectful asshole that doesn't mind speaking it the way it is but not if I dont know what Im taking about . I like to say im the Perfect ass hole I dont even need preparation H

Going back to the ordeal about not having the funds to fix things some times
I have cut cost over and over till the extreme point that I have sacrifice a lot in order to get back on top of this whole situation .
I have never in my whole life had very much money and have never had a hand out I started this business with 60K after I found a need for service wrote a business plan and walked my 8th grade graduate ass in the bank and presented a my idea and got it. Then at that moment I had the most money I had ever seen and I went to a dealer ship and spent it on what I saw best to fit my plan .
and that was the 871 I spoke of and up until the day i traded it off I never knew just what the hell I had on my hands and or how great it was till this truck i have now . I have read and read this year learning everything I can and what do ya know i F**K** up

so here we are doing as my old man taught me fixing things the best way we can afford to and thats keeping your shi#t together so that we can still put food on the table and pay the rent on the down graded house "RV" to just make a living and keep on trucking day by day and the good lord lets us .

so ending that all i wanted to to say is that some times some people just dont have or never had a lot of money but they still got a mission to complete and survive doing so . but im learning and trying a little late in my game so im picking up the pieces along the way .

so to stay with a 2350 or to swap back to the reliable 871 is the real question
back to a motor that i can get better mileage and profit a little more CPM ....
longer life from the 871 ....
so many more pros to the 871 vs the 2350.
but is the pros that out weigh the cons cost effective to make the change or is the ratio way off and am I making a mistake and waiting time in looking into it ?
im not sure so im humbly asking for advice to make a good move .
thanks again for all that you put out here for Rawze
anyone else got any experiences that can shed a light on this ??

have a good day guys well be back later today
replyreply
08-14-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #4
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
A glider company from the west coast quotes cm570 sig600
$44,000
Cummins Amarillo quotes cm2350 inframe
$38,000
waiting on a couple other to get back with me
replyreply
08-14-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #5
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
It will be cheaper and easier to stay with what you have. The 2350 isn't a boat anchor, you just have to learn the ins and outs of that motor. Get it inframed at Mr. Haggs then drive it like you care and you'll probably get 700k-800k miles out of it. Maybe even a lot more, it really depends on how you drive it and how much h.p you can live without. Set it at 450 hp and go easy on it. There's a hand full of common problems with that motor (like any other) but they are well known problems so if you educate yourself about that engine you don't have much to fear. Forget about swapping in an 871 that's crazy talk in my opinion.


User's Signature: im_seeing_parameters_in_my_sleep 1
replyreply
 Thanks given by: Ironsled
08-14-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #6
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
hey I appericate the input tree98 . I mean im not a complete dumb dumb when it comes to the 2350,but always eager to learn more .
as any owner that has been in the game long enough buying a used truck is risky business
But anyways I have have talked to alot of places today looking for the most affordable place and that makes sense .
and boy did some of them want to rake me over the coals but Mr Hagg once again has the best price so I will most likly going that way just got to get my ducks in a row and make it happen .
and for the price at Haggs i would have enough money to take care of the other things like rawze asked about that i think should be fixed . nothing much but i would like to make some changes to my front end to get the ride right . i have the 4 air bag steering supenison system and boy ole boy i cant stand it. so to get that list together is my next step .over &out
replyreply
08-15-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #7
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
(08-14-2019 )Ironsled Wrote:  ...
but Mr Hagg once again has the best price so
...

At hags, it is not about the price (though I think he is damned reasonable, all things considered) ... it is about knowing without any question or doubt that the engine was done 100% correctly with no shortcuts taken. Add to that, all the things recommended on this forum to ensure a longer engine life and then it becomes something a person does not have to question later on. An engine built to higher standards than even the factory builds them. -- They also stand behind their work, and bend over backwards to help people the best they can.

These things are a rarity these days all in themselves. That is the reason why so many on here says to take it to him ... it is many people's experiences on here that have determined this, not anything else.


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
replyreply
 Thanks given by: Brock , Ironsled , Waterloo
08-15-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #8
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
I will second what Rawze said, Mr Hagg has rebuilding an ISX down to a science. The truck is brought in the shop, hood removed, then front structure removed. Then the tear down starts, it is really something to watch. Every component's nuts and bolts are put in individual zip loc bags, labeled and placed on a very tall bakers shelf. That is your motor, no intermingling of parts. And yes, all parts are cleaned.

The assembly, all of the parts needed to do a proper in frame are in a plastic container that comes from the parts room. He has the 871, 2250 and 2350 parts sets. All of the gaskets, the little o rings, everything is in there and used.

The slick lube for the bearings, it is there, I have seen the guys rolling in the bearings, they use it liberally. The pre lube of the motor, I borrowed the pump, it works. And the most important part, the setting of the liners. That is done too, no skipping that step.

Mr Hagg get's in there too, both front covers are removed, front gear train, front main seal, etc. Most shops only remove the top cover to remove the cam(s) unless you specify replacing the front main seal.

The best thing, is that they have done so many of these rebuilds, successfully, that they are quick. Not fast and sloppy, but efficiently quick to disassemble and reassemble. No corners are cut, and when other little things pop up, he is quick to address them, like a component that is soon too fail that needs to be addressed. When he says something is bad, it is, he is not the kind of guy to play games with a man's livelihood and he does not want to see you back with issues or broke down on the side of the road. I have heard these conversations and seen the parts. If he says it's bad, it is bad. He has no time for games, shop is way to busy for that nonsense.

When you pull up to the shop, it is nothing to see a half a dozen or more crates sitting in one of the bays or in the lot, those are in frame kits and heads, and they are stacked like cord wood on some days. I believe he is the number one or two ISX in frame shop in the country, and #1 in Georgia. That is one busy little shop.

Mr Hagg has a helluva a system down, he and Rawze worked together in the beginning to do these motors properly, both men have years of knowledge and experience, and they went about ensuring that when an ISX is rebuilt, it is rebuilt to a higher standard than even Cummins adheres too. These two men put their heads together to find a better way, and boy has Mr Hagg run with it and has it down to a science. I would trust no other shop to do an in frame on my motor.

There is a back story here too... Rawze, when he fired up Rawze.com, started hearing the horror stories of shops skipping crucial steps when rebuilding these ISX motors. I was one of those victims. He set out to find a local shop in his area that would work with him and rebuild these ISX motors to a higher standard that he could endorse and say this is the shop you need to take your truck too. That is when he met Mr Hagg... Rawze had the customers, he just needed somewhere to send them. Mr Hagg grabbed this bull by the horns and ran with it. And don't get me wrong here, Mr Hagg knows how to rebuild an ISX, Rawze's involvement was to ensure the steps were being followed so that these motors would not require a second in frame a year or two down the road. This was a good marriage in my book, both men are passionate about doing the job properly, or don't do it at all. I am damn proud to have met both men. They are both responsible for keeping many a man up and running and in business that would have failed due to mechanical issues. I am one of those guys.
replyreply
 Thanks given by: Magard , Mattman , Ironsled
08-15-2019, (Subject: rebuild vs swap decisions ) 
Post: #9
RE: rebuild vs swap decisions
(08-15-2019 )Waterloo Wrote:  I will second what Rawze said, Mr Hagg has rebuilding an ISX down to a science. The truck is brought in the shop, hood removed, then front structure removed. Then the tear down starts, it is really something to watch. Every component's nuts and bolts are put in individual zip loc bags, labeled and placed on a very tall bakers shelf. That is your motor, no intermingling of parts. And yes, all parts are cleaned.

The assembly, all of the parts needed to do a proper in frame are in a plastic container that comes from the parts room. He has the 871, 2250 and 2350 parts sets. All of the gaskets, the little o rings, everything is in there and used.

The slick lube for the bearings, it is there, I have seen the guys rolling in the bearings, they use it liberally. The pre lube of the motor, I borrowed the pump, it works. And the most important part, the setting of the liners. That is done too, no skipping that step.

Mr Hagg get's in there too, both front covers are removed, front gear train, front main seal, etc. Most shops only remove the top cover to remove the cam(s) unless you specify replacing the front main seal.

The best thing, is that they have done so many of these rebuilds, successfully, that they are quick. Not fast and sloppy, but efficiently quick to disassemble and reassemble. No corners are cut, and when other little things pop up, he is quick to address them, like a component that is soon too fail that needs to be addressed. When he says something is bad, it is, he is not the kind of guy to play games with a man's livelihood and he does not want to see you back with issues or broke down on the side of the road. I have heard these conversations and seen the parts. If he says it's bad, it is bad. He has no time for games, shop is way to busy for that nonsense.

When you pull up to the shop, it is nothing to see a half a dozen or more crates sitting in one of the bays or in the lot, those are in frame kits and heads, and they are stacked like cord wood on some days. I believe he is the number one or two ISX in frame shop in the country, and #1 in Georgia. That is one busy little shop.

Mr Hagg has a helluva a system down, he and Rawze worked together in the beginning to do these motors properly, both men have years of knowledge and experience, and they went about ensuring that when an ISX is rebuilt, it is rebuilt to a higher standard than even Cummins adheres too. These two men put their heads together to find a better way, and boy has Mr Hagg run with it and has it down to a science. I would trust no other shop to do an in frame on my motor.

There is a back story here too... Rawze, when he fired up Rawze.com, started hearing the horror stories of shops skipping crucial steps when rebuilding these ISX motors. I was one of those victims. He set out to find a local shop in his area that would work with him and rebuild these ISX motors to a higher standard that he could endorse and say this is the shop you need to take your truck too. That is when he met Mr Hagg... Rawze had the customers, he just needed somewhere to send them. Mr Hagg grabbed this bull by the horns and ran with it. And don't get me wrong here, Mr Hagg knows how to rebuild an ISX, Rawze's involvement was to ensure the steps were being followed so that these motors would not require a second in frame a year or two down the road. This was a good marriage in my book, both men are passionate about doing the job properly, or don't do it at all. I am damn proud to have met both men. They are both responsible for keeping many a man up and running and in business that would have failed due to mechanical issues. I am one of those guys.
I'm gonna give you a call later Waterloo.....if that's okay with you
replyreply
 Thanks given by: Waterloo




NOTE: Rawze.com is not affiliated, nor endorses any of the google ads that are displayed on this website.