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Magard · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

I got a few questions for my Canadian friends. After reading about what things cost up there I’m curious what the rates must be. Also what is your fuel cost to your revenue %. Companies are going bankrupt down here and we don’t have near the repair cost that you do. I have a feeling things are gonna get tougher down here with what our government is doing printing all this money. I believe you guys have already been living it and wondering what your numbers look like. Maybe get some insight were we might be headed. I’m in trucking because I think it is a vital part of the economy. When things get bad trucks are still moving freight. Just wondering what the money devaluation in your country has done to your business. Did you notice rates find a bottom and hold or is it basically just not sustainable.

DDlighttruck · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

Fuel is around 40% of gross revenue. That’s an average from my accountant across several O/Os.

I’m seeing a bunch of work dry up, but it’s hard to point fingers at any one thing. It’s getting harder and harder to get loads back to Canada. I’m seeing more empty miles as a result.

There’s also a bunch of “new Canadians” undercutting rates that isn’t helping. I heard, but can’t confirm, that these “new Canadians” use the “church” to own the trucks, any money the “church” gets is tax free.

They also run shell companies so they don’t have to file income tax as an individual. At least in Ontario, it’s called the Driver Inc scam. They incorporate a business to get the tax breaks but are essentially still an employee.

They also run junk equipment for the most part. They staged a protest at the weigh scales a year or two ago, because they were getting overweight tickets. Well then why don’t you run properly specced equipment, and axle weight gauges?? Buncha BS. I paid money to get an accurate axle weight gauge, so I know it can be done

Outbound freight usually pays pretty good. The rates on loads going back to Canada make me scratch my head.

The price of parts is astronomical. The dealer wanted $950 for one brake valve, but could get me a cheaper Bendix part aftermarket. For $600. That same brake valve at a jobber was $200. It’s ridiculous what parts cost

tree98 · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

(10-20-2019 )DDlighttruck Wrote: Fuel is around 40% of gross revenue. That’s an average from my accountant across several O/Os.

I’m seeing a bunch of work dry up, but it’s hard to point fingers at any one thing. It’s getting harder and harder to get loads back to Canada. I’m seeing more empty miles as a result.

There’s also a bunch of “new Canadians” undercutting rates that isn’t helping. I heard, but can’t confirm, that these “new Canadians” use the “church” to own the trucks, any money the “church” gets is tax free.

They also run shell companies so they don’t have to file income tax as an individual. At least in Ontario, it’s called the Driver Inc scam. They incorporate a business to get the tax breaks but are essentially still an employee.

They also run junk equipment for the most part. They staged a protest at the weigh scales a year or two ago, because they were getting overweight tickets. Well then why don’t you run properly specced equipment, and axle weight gauges?? Buncha BS. I paid money to get an accurate axle weight gauge, so I know it can be done

Outbound freight usually pays pretty good. The rates on loads going back to Canada make me scratch my head.

The price of parts is astronomical. The dealer wanted $950 for one brake valve, but could get me a cheaper Bendix part aftermarket. For $600. That same brake valve at a jobber was $200. It’s ridiculous what parts cost

Fuel is 40% ??!! Wow that's high. 18-20% for me here in USA.

Magard · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

Fuel cost are similar down here. I try to stay below 35% at 40% I would say long term that’s not gonna work. I’m looking for this kind of info. Like what the normal guy is doing. Because that sets the base line. Like at what point do most fail at. 40% for fuel plus 35% realized cost for driver. Leaves 25% for truck payment insurance and maintenance. So if a truck grosses $15k a month that leaves $3750 for payment and maintenance and insurance. It quickly starts not financially not working. I just wondered if you Canadians were some how functional beyond 40% for fuel. With your maintenance and truck costs I’ll bet 40% for fuel isn’t functional very long. I used to try and keep my fuel around 25% I just can’t stay busy at that level these days. I’m running like 30%-35% mostly now.

Brock · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

Talk to me after tomorrow's federal election
..... j/k lol I dont count anyways, I'm oilfield so my margins are all different.

tree98 · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

I know your looking for Canadian numbers here but I must say my numbers are quite different.I do two separate things with the trucks I have but the ones that use the most fuel look like this...... 18-20% fuel 30% to the driver plus about 10% of wages (3% of gross) to labor burden(workers comp, unemployment, etc.) Those trucks gross $15,833.00 a month average. So that leaves about $90,000 a year after driver and fuel. Out of that comes payment($4200.00 mo. For a $240K truck) and insurance($4,500.00 year) maintenance/repairs, what is left after that is the profit.... 40% fuel cost would make it very hard to keep doing.

Magard · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

Tree I think you have a special business model there. It sounds awesome but I don’t think it’s a normal situation.

DDlighttruck · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

(10-20-2019 )tree98 Wrote:
(10-20-2019 )DDlighttruck Wrote: Fuel is around 40% of gross revenue. That’s an average from my accountant across several O/Os.

I’m seeing a bunch of work dry up, but it’s hard to point fingers at any one thing. It’s getting harder and harder to get loads back to Canada. I’m seeing more empty miles as a result.

There’s also a bunch of “new Canadians” undercutting rates that isn’t helping. I heard, but can’t confirm, that these “new Canadians” use the “church” to own the trucks, any money the “church” gets is tax free.

They also run shell companies so they don’t have to file income tax as an individual. At least in Ontario, it’s called the Driver Inc scam. They incorporate a business to get the tax breaks but are essentially still an employee.

They also run junk equipment for the most part. They staged a protest at the weigh scales a year or two ago, because they were getting overweight tickets. Well then why don’t you run properly specced equipment, and axle weight gauges?? Buncha BS. I paid money to get an accurate axle weight gauge, so I know it can be done

Outbound freight usually pays pretty good. The rates on loads going back to Canada make me scratch my head.

The price of parts is astronomical. The dealer wanted $950 for one brake valve, but could get me a cheaper Bendix part aftermarket. For $600. That same brake valve at a jobber was $200. It’s ridiculous what parts cost

Fuel is 40% ??!! Wow that's high. 18-20% for me here in USA.

Thats why Im trying to improve my fuel MPG. Even a half mpg would be huge.

My numbers are jacked, poor bookkeeping the first couple years. I was at 32% the first year but Im not sure I trust that number. Thats why I provided what my accountant gave as an average

DDlighttruck · 10-20-2019, **(Subject: For my own understanding )**

(10-20-2019 )Magard Wrote: Fuel cost are similar down here. I try to stay below 35% at 40% I would say long term that’s not gonna work. I’m looking for this kind of info. Like what the normal guy is doing. Because that sets the base line. Like at what point do most fail at. 40% for fuel plus 35% realized cost for driver. Leaves 25% for truck payment insurance and maintenance. So if a truck grosses $15k a month that leaves $3750 for payment and maintenance and insurance. It quickly starts not financially not working. I just wondered if you Canadians were some how functional beyond 40% for fuel. With your maintenance and truck costs I’ll bet 40% for fuel isn’t functional very long. I used to try and keep my fuel around 25% I just can’t stay busy at that level these days. I’m running like 30%-35% mostly now.

I dont think the numbers work. I've had a couple people look at the numbers and it doesnt add up well.
Basically run at a bare minimum, do all the repairs yourself, and be cheap cheap cheap. NOT how you should run a business.

There are other companies I'm considering switching to, but for now I have to grind it out.