What would you have done differently??
11-08-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #55
RE: What would you have done differently??
They left off 2 skid buckets that were on the bills lol! 72in bucket 30in overhang


User's Signature: 2010 Lonestar - CM871 - 13sp - 3.70s - skateboarder
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11-09-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #56
RE: What would you have done differently??
(10-26-2019 )DDlighttruck Wrote:  The one I’m dragging just says stake pockets. No reference to wrapping the whole pocket or using half the pocket

I’ve asked this before and never gotten an answer- IF the whole pocket is good for 5500 pounds, then each half should be good for 2750 pounds.

A 2” strap is good for 3300 pounds, so I see no issues using two 2” straps on one pocket. Reduce the amount from 3300 to 2750 in your aggregate calc and carry on


This could have been already answered I don't know, I honestly didn't read every post. But if not..

There is a requirement in the North America Cargo Securement handbook. I can't remember where exactly, but a nice Alberta officer showed it to me once.

Now looking at your WLL chart there what most don't realize is HOW those WLL apply

Stack Pocket WLL's are for OUTWARD pressure. So when a stack pocket has a Pipe Stack in it and you push it outwards then it's 5500#'s.

Wrapping around the pocket has no rating thus illegal.
Hooking a hook to one side which actually pulls that side forward or back depending on the side you hook to..... No Rating thus illegal.

Notice the ONLY mention of "Rub Rail" is for the rub rail spacers... In all actuality the Rub Rail it's self has no WLL and thus illegal to hook to WITH ANY SECUREMENT device...
THIS MEANS EVEN WRAPPING A STRAP HOOK AROUND IT IS ILLEGAL IN TWO WAYS.
1. Rub Rail has no WLL thus can't be used for cargo securement.
2. NOTHING is to be outside of the rub rail when ever possible. Legally you should have to hook the hook under the outside rail lip.

Now that being said, I had a long conversation with a California DOT about this once. Technically the outside frame also has no WLL. for this reason they allow you to connect the hook to the rub rail. HOWEVER the strap has to go INSIDE the rub rail with the hook ONLY on the outside. If you go by the letter of the law you would have to have and only use straps with chain hooks on them. Unless you have a Fontaine trailer like I do that has a flat hook system under the composite rub rail with a WLL.

If you go by the rules then chains have to be passed through the inside of the rub rail, around a rub rail spacer and then connected back to itself no closer than 6" above the deck.

That is the only legal way to use chains with a rub rail. I believe I saw a picture in this thread showing this. It also showed a chain wrapped around a stack pocket then connected back to it's self. This is NOT legal as the pocket is not designed to be squeezed together. if you look at a lot of them they are not welded inside. I believe reitnouer welds both sides of the pockets and I believe they are the only ones that do.

So to sum up..

Straps with flat hooks have to be ran INSIDE the rub rail then up and hooked. I personally feed my hook through the rub rail with the hook facing me then up and back down through the rub rail and hook it on the bottom thus wrapping the rub rail. What I believe and was taught was that by going through and then hooking the hook to the top of the rub rail pulls the rub rail out at the top and down essentially ripping it off the trailer. I have seen this with my own eyes after accidents. By doing it as I do and going through the rail then up and back down with the hook makes it pull from the bottom in and up. By pulling inward on the rail you are pulling it towards the welds and not ripping it out and away from them.

Chains have to be wrapped around the Rub Rail spacers (the round or square tubes welded to the trailer outside frame and the rub rail) then connected to themselves no closer than 6" above the deck. This is for any chain whether it's a full chain, or a strap with a chain hook.

ALSO JUST FOR KICKS AND GIGGLES.

Now I haven't seen this discussed on here yet, but it's a common discussion.... SHORT STRAPPING

Short strapping for those that might not know is where you put the strap through the rail then fold it in half and stick the fold inside the winch and tighten it up..

I have heard many a truck stop conversationalist insidt this is ILLEGAL... Well sorry but I have done the research and to be 100% clear THERE IS NO LAW, RULE OR EVEN MENTION of how to place a strap in a winch in ANY federal regulation or book. It's not even mentioned in the North American Cargo Securement Hand Book which for those that don't know The "North American" part means USA and Canada.. Same rules apply both countries.

THERE IS ONE, AND ONLY ONE STATE WITH A LAW ABOUT STRAPS IN WINCHES. That state is New Mexico. In there law it says the strap "Has to go through both sides of the winch and be wound around the winch no less than 3 times"

Now here's how I do it and I have tested it with two different NM DOT guys. I still fold my straps and slid them through the winch, but I go through both sides and pull enough through that it wraps around the winch. Perfectly legal as long as when they look through the center of the winch they can see the strap go all the way through both side. Doing it this way is legal EVERYWHERE and you still just loosen and pull and out it comes.

Just my two cents. although I assure you I've done the home work, and know the laws and rules. 32 years driving and the last 28 of that pulling open deck. I might not know everything, but I assure you I know allot more than nothing..


User's Signature: 08 KW W900L 600hp ISX, 18sp, 3:36 rears. Big Yellow fuel Guzzler.
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11-09-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #57
RE: What would you have done differently??
(11-09-2019 )LRT1549 Wrote:  I personally feed my hook through the rub rail with the hook facing me then up and back down through the rub rail and hook it on the bottom thus wrapping the rub rail. What I believe and was taught was that by going through and then hooking the hook to the top of the rub rail pulls the rub rail out at the top and down essentially ripping it off the trailer. I have seen this with my own eyes after accidents. By doing it as I do and going through the rail then up and back down with the hook makes it pull from the bottom in and up. By pulling inward on the rail you are pulling it towards the welds and not ripping it out and away from them.

Doing this exposes the strap to abrasion. Defeating the whole purpose of the rub rail. You get the same exact effect of pulling down when you simply go thru the rub rail and back to it. You are adding one extra wrap that just leaves the strap exposed to road debris and potential to be cut and fail should you happen to scrape something. This is what the Connecticut DOT officer warned me about not doing all those years ago.
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11-09-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #58
RE: What would you have done differently??
(11-09-2019 )LRT1549 Wrote:  This could have been already answered I don't know, I ...
Why do you run 3.36 rears?


User's Signature: I have no idea what I’m doing and probably need supervising
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11-09-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #59
RE: What would you have done differently??
So doing some research, it appears Canada and America got along just long enough to come up with the north american securement handbook in 2002 and by June 2006 the FMCSA said the hell with Canada and made a bunch of final rulings about securement that Canada doesn't agree with. So this is why we have such a diverse and confusing idea on what and how things should be secured. Rub rail or no rub rail? Inside or where ever? What constitutes an anchor point? Does it have a rating? It appears America says most of those questions are up in the air and up to the driver or law enforcement to decide. Where as Canada has a more black and white approach by using the north American securement handbook to this day.

This directly from FMCSA website. Current as of 2014.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/ca...ment-rules

Then I ran in to J.J. Keller's findings in this article as of 2019.
https://www.jjkeller.com/learn/should-yo...securement

What a mess.
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 Thanks given by: Rawze
11-09-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #60
RE: What would you have done differently??
(11-09-2019 )Chamberpains Wrote:  So doing some research, it appears Canada and America got along just long enough to come up with the north american securement handbook in 2002 and by June 2006 the FMCSA said the hell with Canada and made a bunch of final rulings about securement that Canada doesn't agree with. So this is why we have such a diverse and confusing idea on what and how things should be secured. Rub rail or no rub rail? Inside or where ever? What constitutes an anchor point? Does it have a rating? It appears America says most of those questions are up in the air and up to the driver or law enforcement to decide. Where as Canada has a more black and white approach by using the north American securement handbook to this day.

This directly from FMCSA website. Current as of 2014.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/ca...ment-rules

Then I ran in to J.J. Keller's findings in this article as of 2019.
https://www.jjkeller.com/learn/should-yo...securement

What a mess.
      
Just like having two HOS, having two sets of securement regs is annoying. I printed off the national safety code for securement a couple years ago and carry it on the truck

The two biggest misconception are length and number of straps needed, then the WLL needed on heavy machines over 10,000 pounds.

It says that you need one strap FOR every ten feet of cargo, NOT that you need a strap AT every ten feet. On a 40 foot piece I could put six straps all in the middle and be legal.

2268 kg is 5000 pounds. 5/16” chain is good for 4700 pounds. So, heavy vehicles over 10,000 pounds needs at minimum four 3/8” chains as your main securement

I’ve had guys argue and argue with me. There’s the regs, that’s the wording, maybe I’m wrong but that’s how I was taught and that’s how I read them

On the length/strap placement- think of a bridge beam on a dolly. You always see 5-6 chains up front and 5-6 chains on the back dolly. Nothing for 40-50 feet in the middle! So unless they’re exempt somehow, to me that’s legally allowed given the wording


User's Signature: I have no idea what I’m doing and probably need supervising
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11-10-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #61
RE: What would you have done differently??
(11-09-2019 )DDlighttruck Wrote:  Why do you run 3.36 rears?

Because they were in the truck.


User's Signature: 08 KW W900L 600hp ISX, 18sp, 3:36 rears. Big Yellow fuel Guzzler.
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11-10-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #62
RE: What would you have done differently??
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3:36 on 11r24.5

I call 18th my Gettin home gear!


User's Signature: I'm no mechanic, I'm just a guy that breaks down enough to know a bit.
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11-10-2019, (Subject: What would you have done differently?? ) 
Post: #63
RE: What would you have done differently??
(11-10-2019 )Brock Wrote:  3:36 on 11r24.5

I call 18th my Gettin home gear!

I call that the "suck the bottom out of the fuel tank while lugging the engine" mode.

This is because there are plenty of morons out there that would drive that way fully loaded.


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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