2011 Cummins ISX15 engine derated

[Rawze]

(02-25-2016 )gearhead Wrote:  Have the codes read by someone then go from there. This will point you in the right direction trust me.

I just helped someone with their truck that they had into the dealer many times over for repeating DPF and SCR issues. they spent more than 20,000 in repairs with no solid results.

Here is what we found... the truck owner claims it came straight form the dealer in chacago (name removed), and on its 1,000 mile journey, all the problems came right back again for the 4th time. Truck was purchased used (450k miles) a few months back and had nothing but problems. the guy could hardly make any money it was down so much.

This person had ALL the sensors changed, including the NOx sensors. They also did a thorough EGR tune-up, replacing every EGR related sensor on the motor and cleaning out every pipe. The dealer changed the EGR valve and turbocharger as well trying to solve this with no results.

There are a few guys over on other auto/truck forums that call me a "shade tree truck stop tuner", so let me tell everyone what my shade-tree redneck back-yard half-asse*d ways found (btw I don't do truck stop tuning).

ALL of the joints in the in the DPF, SCR, and other piping were missing all the gaskets. Dried and crystallized SCR fluid was seeping heavily out of several of them. All the joints between the components were leaking badly. there were also 2 joints so loose, you could wiggle the exhaust pipes back and fourth easily. - Can anyone say "Death in your sleep by carbon-monoxide poisoning?" It is a good thing this guy does not idle all night while he sleeps.

This alone would be bad enough for the system to not work properly, but there was another problem, and was likely the culprit since the purchase of the truck. Even with the system running, the NOx levels were being flagged all the time out the rear sensor. The truck was not using excess DEF fluid, and the sprayer, filter, pump, everything was in good shape. We even tested the spray pattern on the injector. There was no "Volcano" built up inside the doser pipe (common problem), and everything looked good. That is, until we discovered the DOC was an after-market can, not an original factory component. it was unable to reduce NOx properly, and had larger than normal holes in it. Looking at it, and its different shade of color,.. I highly doubt it even had the precious metals required for it to perform its functions.

Can anyone say "Chineese Fake?" - That is what I am suspecting.

Just thought I would share that with those who are having repeating problems, but even this driver redneck of a shade-tree mechanic knows that a truck dealer or certified shop should AT THE VERY LEAST! be putting gaskets in the exhaust joints on this stuff, and checking the components to see if their fake!.

What a shame.

[joed2323]

(02-25-2016 )Ted Fisher Wrote:  I know this is jumping to conclusions but the driver shut the truck off and got out he said there was a funny noise coming from the def tank. I'm worried about them taking it to the dealer because the def system is under warranty but the engine isn't. The service department is saying they will just have to see but I don't want them to just start throwing parts at it.

Do not take it to the dealer for this noise.

Your truck is absolutely suppose to make that sound every time when you shut your truck off...

What noise you are hearing is actually the def pump purging the def fluild back into the def tank...

Make sure your driver or drivers never turn the battery disconnects off right after you shut truck down... You need to give the truck about 30 seconds to a minute to complete this task. If you shut your battery disconnects off when it is below freezing you will basically freeze and crack your def pump... Then you will have a truck with about 10 or more egr/aftertreatment active codes...

If you suspect this has happened, all you need to do is remove the yellow plug/harness from the bottom of def pump, when you do this fluid will run out of this harness plug location and you will know instantly that your def pump is junk!!!

Im sure this has been covered before on this forum, but I just want to make it clear.

[joed2323]

(02-26-2016 )Rawze Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 )gearhead Wrote:  Have the codes read by someone then go from there. This will point you in the right direction trust me.

I just helped someone with their truck that they had into the dealer many times over for repeating DPF and SCR issues. they spent more than 20,000 in repairs with no solid results.

Here is what we found... the truck owner claims it came straight form the dealer in chacago (name removed), and on its 1,000 mile journey, all the problems came right back again for the 4th time. Truck was purchased used (450k miles) a few months back and had nothing but problems. the guy could hardly make any money it was down so much.

This person had ALL the sensors changed, including the NOx sensors. They also did a thorough EGR tune-up, replacing every EGR related sensor on the motor and cleaning out every pipe. The dealer changed the EGR valve and turbocharger as well trying to solve this with no results.

There are a few guys over on other auto/truck forums that call me a "shade tree truck stop tuner", so let me tell everyone what my shade-tree redneck back-yard half-asse*d ways found (btw I don't do truck stop tuning).

ALL of the joints in the in the DPF, SCR, and other piping were missing all the gaskets. Dried and crystallized SCR fluid wahs seeping heavily out of several of them. All the joints between the components were leaking badly. there were also 2 joints so loose, you could wiggle the exhaust pipes back and fourth easily. - Can anyone say "Death in your sleep by carbon-monoxide poisoning?" It is a good thing this guy does not idle all night while he sleeps.

This alone would be bad enough for the system to not work properly, but there was another problem, and was likely the culprit since the purchase of the truck. Even with the system running, the NOx levels were being flagged all the time out the rear sensor. The truck was not using excess DEF fluid, and the sprayer, filter, pump, everything was in good shape. We even tested the spray pattern on the injector. There was no "Volcano" built up inside the doser pipe (common problem), and everything looked good. That is, until we discovered the DOC was an after-market can, not an original factory component. it was unable to reduce NOx properly, and had larger than normal holes in it. Looking at it, and its different shade of color,.. I highly doubt it even had the precious metals required for it to perform its functions.

Can anyone say "Chineese Fake?" - That is what I am suspecting.

Just thought I would share that with those who are having repeating problems, but even this driver redneck of a shade-tree mechanic knows that a truck dealer or certified shop should AT THE VERY LEAST! be putting gaskets in the exhaust joints on this stuff, and checking the components to see if their fake!.

What a shame.

Wow rawze, thats terrible to get that kind of service from a dealer, most if not all kenworth dealers, mechanics have to be certified, but regardless that's not saying much either. Best one ive seen is driving a truck back from a kw dealer and double checking their work, I found pretty much all the bolts around the belhousing to be super loose to the point the tranny was ready to fall off... Ive seen some terrible work from quite a few dealers...

Word to anyone having to bring your truck to any dealer, make damn sure you crawl under your truck and or inspect anywork they perforned...

I realize its it's very easy to get distracted working on a truck when you have a person or persons distracting the mechanic, or getting pulled off the job then coming back to it... Always double check and triple check your work or there work...

[Rawze]

(03-02-2016 )joed2323 Wrote:  Wow rawze, thats terrible to get that kind of service from a dealer, most if not all kenworth dealers, mechanics have to be certified, but regardless that's not saying much either. Best one ive seen is driving a truck back from a kw dealer and double checking their work, I found pretty much all the bolts around the belhousing to be super loose to the point the tranny was ready to fall off... Ive seen some terrible work from quite a few dealers...

Word to anyone having to bring your truck to any dealer, make damn sure you crawl under your truck and or inspect anywork they perforned...

I realize its it's very easy to get distracted working on a truck when you have a person or persons distracting the mechanic, or getting pulled off the job then coming back to it... Always double check and triple check your work or there work...

$120 bucks an hour in labor charges + TOP=-NOTCH CERTIFICATIONS warrants NO EXCCUSES TO ANYTHING LESS THAN TOP NOTCH HIGH QUALITY WORK!


NO EXCUSES!!!

I am a guy in his backyard!. They should be able to run circles around me!.

[kryten]

Last January on my first time out after my vacation I was out in the middle of nowhere northern B.C. when my Volvo started threatening me. It was demanding a parked regen for the first time in 625000 km so after finding somewhere to pull over I started one but it wouldn't stop after almost an hour. I managed to limp it into Prince George 350 km away, sometimes it was in derate sometimes it wasn't. The mechanic who was finally assigned to it managed to get it sorted enough so I at least didn't have to worry about the 8kph top speed when I wandered around town that night. The next day he went to town and did all the things the computer told him to do but when he talked to me he said he's pretty sure he's got it but there were some things he wanted to check out before calling it quits. So he did some more trouble shooting above and beyond what was in the computer said could be wrong and lo and behold found a couple of small thing that would have caused me problems down the road. It is now about 180000km later and the problems have NOT come back.

Sometime last summer one of the trucking magazines up here reported the winners for the Volvo North America tech championship and the guy who worked on my truck came in first overall as the best Volvo mechanic in North America. So sometimes you get lucky and find someone who a) gives a shi#t about his job and b) actually knows how to do his job. Most of the people at the stealerships I wouldn't let change my oil, or fix a wheelbarrow for that matter.

[schISM]

(03-01-2016 )joed2323 Wrote:  If you suspect this has happened, all you need to do is remove the yellow plug/harness from the bottom of def pump, when you do this fluid will run out of this harness plug location and you will know instantly that your def pump is junk!!!

My cel. came on yesterday and the engine derated in short order. Codes 3559, 2976 and 3572 along with the 3714 engine derate. Peterbilt said they could "maybe" get me in on Monday so I started troubleshooting and when I disconnected the harness from the def module def fluid came pouring out. Kinda glad I found the problem but $650 for a pump that should be under warranty but probably won't because I didn't have Pete do it is a bummer. This will be the last one I replace as well as anything else related to aftertreatment.

[Cuya]

(12-16-2016 )schISM Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 )joed2323 Wrote:  If you suspect this has happened, all you need to do is remove the yellow plug/harness from the bottom of def pump, when you do this fluid will run out of this harness plug location and you will know instantly that your def pump is junk!!!

My cel. came on yesterday and the engine derated in short order. Codes 3559, 2976 and 3572 along with the 3714 engine derate. Peterbilt said they could "maybe" get me in on Monday so I started troubleshooting and when I disconnected the harness from the def module def fluid came pouring out. Kinda glad I found the problem but $650 for a pump that should be under warranty but probably won't because I didn't have Pete do it is a bummer. This will be the last one I replace as well as anything else related to aftertreatment.

I see MM - 2 in his future.

PM Rawze, gearhead, or Unilevers. I did mine a couple years ago down in Atlanta and could not be more happy. It even passed the "butt sniffer" test in NJ last year with cleaner numbers than before it was done.

[schISM]

Cuya ' Wrote:  I see MM - 2 in his future.

Your crystal ball is right on the money. 5 months left on the warranty.
--------------------------------------------------
In case anybody gets stuck working on their def pump I took a pic of the clips that hold the def supply lines in place. They look like C-clips that you would pry off. DON'T PRY ON THEM!!!
You squeeze them together at the opening of the C and pull the line apart.



Also the wiring harness at the bottom of the pump has a locking mechanism that is yellow. You pry the yellow lock straight down to unhook the harness.



It's the "little things" like these that would be helpful to me so hopefully they'll help someone else too.

[Rawze]

thanks for sharing that.