Just bought RV with ISX 525hp...
10-01-2020, (Subject: Just bought RV with ISX 525hp... ) 
Post: #19
RE: Just bought RV with ISX 525hp...
(10-01-2020 )Smitty77 Wrote:  ...
In my research before buying this coach, it was suggested to me that less then 20% of the Drop #6 Valves were in CM870 config engines, ...

My response to this in the e-mail was...

Rawze Wrote:your whole story sounds like a bunch of social-mnedai garbage fairyland crack-pipe horse-s$it to me.

post your questions on my forum and see what you get as answers by people who actually own those engines and have to rely on them for a million miles at a time.

just to clarify here... No one is trying to pick on you... it seems you are caught up into some some outside group of morons feeding you this garbage. That is what I was pointing out in the e-mail,.. and it seems Waterloo now has said about the same thing, just like anyone else on here who owns these engines and relies on them on a daily basis to make them their paychecks.

-- So... lets begin straitening out this mess shall we?

You mentioned the miles .. well, in an RV, the miles on it are mostly irrelevant actually ... Post the engine hours. That is the most important, not the miles so much on equipment that does not move non-stop year after year. That will point towards how much engine wear there is and let you know what its expected wear from use is on the thing. Better yet, Get or make a printout of the entire ecm report via cummins insite. Post the PDF of it here, that will tell you how the thing has been driven, what abuses it has suffered, etc.

To convert the hours since last maint. interval, etc. into the typical highway miles that people use on the forum here, just multiply the engine hours (or interval) by 43.

I.E.> 20,000 operating hours on the engine is the equivalent of about ~860,000 miles.

Next ... It is a CM870, they are a million mile engine (~23,000 operating hours -ish) if cared for properly. Keep up with the regular maintenance on it and it will just run unless your abusing it on some way.

Regular maintenance ...
- Formulate (or find ) a proper maintenece schedule for both the engine and the vehicle. This includes everything such as when to clean out piping, changing filters, replacing/testing the coolant, turbocharger inspections, CAC, intake, egr, and all other regular inspections of the engine.. and then there is the rest of the vehicle to consider. -- Maintenance schedules for the engine can be found on quickserv.com -- its free to join and everything you need to know including all procedures for the engine are there.

Abuse ...
- Not doing ALL the maintenance that is required is the death of it. I can't tell you how many people think just changing the oil is considered maintaining their engine. This is incorrect and leads to a rude awakening and constant problems if the whole engine (and vehicle) is not looked after. Being lazy or relying on others to do this stuff will only cost you money and constant headaches when you least want them in the end.

I would also consider going to the Stealers$its and to OEM shops (original equipment manufacturer certified shops with the big red logos on the building). That is flat out abuse as well. They want your money and want to drain your wallet + sell you crap, all while doing as half-arssed a job as they can get away with. ... that is their business model, and quite frankly, most shops absolutely hate people with RV's.. because they are almost always picky as hell and cannot be satisfied no matter what you do for them.. just warning you, most of them sigh whenever an RV pull into their parking lot and on that part of it, I don't blame them,.. but many of them will go out of their way to charge you as much as they can too, knowing you do not know any better and that you at their mercy because many people who own RV rare completely clueless, they could not be bothered to get their hands dirty to do anything for themselves to their equipment, and are easily victimized because of their nievity and 'ain't my problem, just fix it' attitudes. - Don't be one of those types, it will only cost you big time to not learn to work on your own equipment to at least some medium degree.

You will find no good things there except to get a half-arssed repair and an empty wallet!.. plain and simple. You mentioned a warranty ... Sounds great except that I would not trust them to hold a screwdriver while my worst enemy did the work for free... they are that bad these days... that warranty is not worth the paper it is written on. It seems here lately that 70% of the time, when someone comes on here and says they got a certified warranty shop to do a repair, and they almost always end up with problems do a horrible job when the repair was done.. and I certainly would not trust any of them inside the engine with the head off it... that is simply asking for more problems. - I.E.> stop drinking the cool-aide and garbage advice they are pushing onto you.. it is nothing but harmful, especially to your wallet.

Abuse is not adjusting the overhead valve every 250,000 miles or equilelent engine hours. - That is one of the the fastest way to chew up cams. Another common complaint about the ISX, and again, it can be totally prevented. amd also get wiped out when morons try to extend oil changes and using over-priced synthetic oils. - Put some Rotella-T in it or Delo-400, change the oil based on engine use vs. and hours and fuel consumption, do the overhead adjustments when due, and it will not chew cams.

Abuse would also include having an egr-delete on the engine and someone doing improper programming for it.. it is 90% likely the programming is bad/harmful if you had someone do this to it in its past. if you have had this done, get your data-link adapter out and your laptop, copy the program out of the ecm and e-mail it to me.. I will review it and tell you if it is harmful to the engine or not.

- And if you don't have a data-link adapter.. yet you own a cummins engine,,.. well, that is your first investment .. get one (an inline-6 adapter w cables and cdrom) from off e-bay for a few hundred bucks if need be, they usually come w the software and work just fine. It will pay for itself the next time you get any check engine light instead of running off to the stealer#hit.

next: You mention something about #6 valve dropping or some other nonsense. That is not a thing. Maybe -- just maybe if someone is abusing the enigne badly or has bad delete programming that is bad enough, it could drop a valve, but even then it is uncommon. i am thinking you are mistaking 'Dropped Valve' with 'Dropped Liner', and that is the more common issue.

Dropped Liner issue?... Maybe this is what you have been reading somewhere?. I can only assume you are referring to this.

... and if this is the case ...

This is a commkon issue if someone is abusing the engine. Abuse that would cause this is someone driving it all the time below 1500rpm and pushing hard on the throttle. Especially if it is making 500+ horsepower and set to 1800+ torque. - The ISX does not like being lugged to death with high engine loads (more than 50% throttle) below 1500 rpm or so. This is considered lugging the enigne. Trying to climb a big hill or mountain at say 1200rpm, maybe 1300, maybe 1100rpm, (much below 1500 rpm) is flat out hard on the engine and its liners. This is especially amplified greatly if it has a harmful/bad delete program in it.

(repeating liner issues) -- THE ABSOLUTE LAST PLACE YOU WANT AN INFRAME DONE (head and liner replacement done because of abuse and/or neglect) IS THE DAMNED STEALERS$ITS ... 60% AGAINST YOU THAT THEY WILL NOT CORRECT THE PROBLEM PROPERLY, BUT ONLY REPLACE THE PARTS AND YOU WILL BE IN THE SAME BOAT AGAIN IN A YEAR OR SO! ... These engine have to be built specific ways to prevent repeating liner failures and the EOM network of complete nitwits these days are the worst places to go any more. Less and less repair shops doing engine building right any more, and people have repeating issues over this out of the shops incompetence and their own sheer ignorance.

Liners are not a problem if ...

* The engine is not lugged to death. it being an RV, it has a high chance that it has an automatic tranny in it.. if it does .. and it lets you lug it below 1500 rpm and does not shift until it gets down to 1100 or something ridiculous.. have the tranny re-programmed to allow for it to go up to 1900+ before shifting or start shifting it manually by overriding it. Those automatics that shift out early are engine killers!. Having tall rear end ratios are engine killers too because it fights against the tall gears at lower-than-normal rpm's while going down the roads. What rear end ratio does it have in it?.

* (if it has an egr-delete) The programming has to be good and protects the engine from excess liner friction. Bad delete programming or custom tuning programs are one of the biggest causes of liner issues on the ISX. Bad programs are also everywhere and it is a plague. Like I mentioned above, pull a copy of the program out of it if your not sure and e-mail it.. I will tell you if it is harmful or not and will will know exactly what you have after that.

* (liner drop prevention during an inframe): It needs to be inframed (rebuilt) 100% properly with all OEM components and the liner height raised to 0.014" during the inframe + extra steps (mentioned on this forum) taken beyond what the stealers#its are willing to do. It can easily enough be be re-built for another million+ miles again if the extra steps are taken, but everyone is in a hurry any more and wants the quick buck, takes shortcuts instead. The complaints about liner height issues on the web are part of a bigger problem and it is not the engine's fault... it is other factors including the network of OEM nitwit stealers$it and how they typically rebuild someone's engine. They almost always measure liner height and say its inside factory tolerances, then proceed to re-build the engine, and it fails again a few years later (or less) for the same issue because they did not counter-bore the block + raise the height above factory specs to 0.014" from 0.010" the second time around. It is a well known issue around here and it is not the engines fault, it is the damned repair shops fault.

Maybe this will start to clear out some of that social-medai fog you have had yourself caught up in.

As far as a pre-emtive in-frame (replacing head, internals, liners, counter-boring the block, etc.) goes, only worrying abotu the liner heights, That is complete nonsense. If your engine start showing signs of a dropped liner, you will know it. It is not going to die suddenly, unless your abusing your engine badly. It will start pressurizing the coolant system, causing coolant system loss, etc. and give you warning signs. The bigger question is how many engine hours do you have on the enigne since the last time it was inframed/re-built>?-- Combine that with how much regular maintenance has been done at recommended intervals ... That is how you go about considering "pre-emptively" deciding to spend $20,000+ in-framing it. Last I checked, a person does not replace their windshield just because they think it is might get hit by a rock next month. Do proper maintenance items on a schedule (oil changes, rod/main bearing replacements, overhead valve adjustments, crank balancer replacement, power steering filter, coolant, etc.), and some things you wait until there are imminent signs of failure. An in-frame is one of the "wait until there are signs" unless you have run the engine well past its expected lifespan of 20,000+ hours or more since it was done last and it is now due again.

User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
 Thanks given by: Waterloo
10-02-2020, (Subject: Just bought RV with ISX 525hp... ) 
Post: #20
RE: Just bought RV with ISX 525hp...
Been on too many boards, on a few different interests, to be bothered or feel that anyone is picking on me. So no worries on that front.

And my lively hood is not tied to this engine, it is our earned escape module from our working life. And RV usage is way different then the trucking side of engine usage. I know maybe 10 people, that have put over 200K on their coaches, most consider 125-150K to be 'high miles' for coach usage.

I've had 10 years experience with a ISL400 CAPS era engine, and will adapt my maintenance schedule approach as needed for the ISX. But that is great input, as way too many RV/Coach owner's I know, just 'get in and drive' - and have no 'skin in the game' on care/maintenance/knowledge on their drivetrains...

Data Link will be my first step, had not thought of getting one. We have a system called SilverLeaf, that provides much of the info from the ECM, but not as extensive.

So thanks for the above info. I'll take sometime to do some homework, and follow-up with more questions and info as appropriate. Hell, I've only driven this coach about 300 miles so far, so I want to get out and get some miles behind us. Nothing that I'm aware of is in need of immediate attention, as full service was completed as part of my purchase, with a shop that I have worked with and trust for the last 10 years with our previous coach. (And I am hand's on with much of my normal maintenance. But I baked this into the purchase, and crawled around and under the coach while the Tech was servicing things. Looking for chafing wire harnesses, hydraulic lines, and general overall condition... 40K miles is young usage of this chassis... Frankly, I prefer higher miles over lower miles - as that indicates a coach is 'used', and hopefully properly maintained - vs sitting... Sitting is not as good as using (Feel that way about my own old arse too!).

Hope you, and all on this group, have a good weekend ahead. I'll be back when I have more info accumulated.
 Thanks given by: Waterloo
10-02-2020, (Subject: Just bought RV with ISX 525hp... ) 
Post: #21
RE: Just bought RV with ISX 525hp...
If I'm not mistaken, one of the members over there on IRV2 just had his ISX inframed at Mr.Haggs or had them help. And it was by pictures shown a failed valve. I have seen enough pictures of this failed valve I believe it exists.

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