Cm871 weight loss
09-26-2021, (Subject: Cm871 weight loss ) 
Post: #1
Cm871 weight loss
New here on this forum.

Got a 2009 CM871 400ST CPL 2732 ES#79402558. My turbo HE561VG is pushing oil into the air to air and intake, not much but it is pushing some. Already bought 1 remanufactured turbo through fp. Installed it and it and instantly was pushing way more oil. Returned it and got my money back. Installed my old original turbo on. Now I’m debating doing a weight loss kit and going with a different exhaust manifold and non vgt turbo at the same time. Roughly going to cost me $7000 with parts and labor from a {completely horrible} shop out of OR. I don’t want to lose my exhaust brake. I’ve watch Rawze’s videos on maintaining my emissions components. I haven’t had any issues in the last 50,000 miles since I have done the maintenance on the components. I have a relatively new eg cooler. Truck has over all roughly 1,250,000 miles. Inframed at 1 million. Done right, injectors as well. So I’m debating on buying a brand new HE561VG which I’ve found at $3000 online. I have insite and ct. I would like to load the AV10183 475hp. Or I can lose some weight and some more money. I’m not trying to make it a 600hp engine. 475-500 would be ideal. Any help or recommendations are appreciated. Thank you Rawze, I’ve been a mechanic for years but never dug in deep to these newer Cummins, all of your info, advice, and videos are awesome.
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09-26-2021, (Subject: Cm871 weight loss ) 
Post: #2
RE: Cm871 weight loss
The weight loss idea not so good. Buy the rite turbo from YTS and you will be happy.
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 Thanks given by: tree98 , JB379
09-26-2021, (Subject: Cm871 weight loss ) 
Post: #3
RE: Cm871 weight loss
You will greatly regret ditching the VGT. There isn't even a good reason to get rid of it unless your building a 2,000 hp pulling truck.

A lot of reman holset turbo's push some oil, it's really not that big of a deal if it's not excessive and can get better given a little time.

Like pigpen said, get ahold of YTS down in Georgia and get the correct turbo through him, they are built a lot better than cummins remans and about half the price.

I would be real leary of someone selling a "brand new" HE561 for $3K. that's about half the cost of a genuine holset so something is fishy about that.

You mentioned a shop in OR, it's well known around here that there is NOBODY worth a shi#t to work on an isx out west.

If you have a tune in that truck that came from that place, I strongly recommend you have it looked at by the man himself (Rawze) because your post so far makes me think you might be headed down the wrong road.


User's Signature: Warranty??? Yeah right, I am the warranty!!!
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 Thanks given by: JB379
09-26-2021, (Subject: Cm871 weight loss ) 
Post: #4
RE: Cm871 weight loss
(09-26-2021 )tree98 Wrote:  You will greatly regret ditching the VGT. There isn't even a good reason to get rid of it unless your building a 2,000 hp pulling truck.

A lot of reman holset turbo's push some oil, it's really not that big of a deal if it's not excessive and can get better given a little time.

Like pigpen said, get ahold of YTS down in Georgia and get the correct turbo through him, they are built a lot better than cummins remans and about half the price.

I would be real leary of someone selling a "brand new" HE561 for $3K. that's about half the cost of a genuine holset so something is fishy about that.

You mentioned a shop in OR, it's well known around here that there is NOBODY worth a shi#t to work on an isx out west.

If you have a tune in that truck that came from that place, I strongly recommend you have it looked at by the man himself (Rawze) because your post so far makes me think you might be headed down the wrong road.

No tune in the truck it’s completely bone stock. Turbo online is guaranteed to be brand new, but I will check with YTS. Do you by chance know what city YTS is in?
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09-26-2021, (Subject: Cm871 weight loss ) 
Post: #5
RE: Cm871 weight loss
(09-26-2021 )JB379 Wrote:  New here on this forum.

Got a 2009 CM871 400ST CPL 2732 ES#79402558. My turbo HE561VG is pushing oil into the air to air and intake, not much but it is pushing some. Already bought 1 remanufactured turbo through fp. Installed it and it and instantly was pushing way more oil. Returned it and got my money back. Installed my old original turbo on. Now I’m debating doing a weight loss kit and going with a different exhaust manifold and non vgt turbo at the same time. Roughly going to cost me $7000 with parts and labor from a {completely horrible} shop out of OR. I don’t want to lose my exhaust brake. I’ve watch Rawze’s videos on maintaining my emissions components. I haven’t had any issues in the last 50,000 miles since I have done the maintenance on the components. I have a relatively new eg cooler. Truck has over all roughly 1,250,000 miles. Inframed at 1 million. Done right, injectors as well. So I’m debating on buying a brand new HE561VG which I’ve found at $3000 online. I have insite and ct. I would like to load the AV10183 475hp. Or I can lose some weight and some more money. I’m not trying to make it a 600hp engine. 475-500 would be ideal. Any help or recommendations are appreciated. Thank you Rawze, I’ve been a mechanic for years but never dug in deep to these newer Cummins, all of your info, advice, and videos are awesome.

STOP DRINKING THE COOL-AIDE!!!... YOU SEEM TO BE CAUGHT UP WITH THAT GAGGLE OF COMPLETE IDIOTS, MORON REPAIR SHOPS, AND BAD DELETE SHOPS OUT THERE!!!...

YOU ARE BEING TAKEN FOR A RIDE BY PEOPLE LIKE THAT AND YOU WILL REGRET IT DEEPLY!!!.... NEVER EVER EVER SHOULD YOU TAKE AWAY that vg holset turbo... it is the best thing that EVER HAPPENED TO THAT engine, and it is also the very thing that sets the proper fuel-air-mix for the ISX.

YOU NEED TO STOP IN YOUR TRACKS AND BACK OUT OF THAT DARK ALLEY THAT YOU SEEMED TO HAVE DRIVEN DOWN in your head there ... BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!

-- No one here is telling you NOT to de-mandate emissions off of the thing .. that is not what we are saying. That is your decision alone to make, and We don't blame anyone for doing that if need be ... BUT TO REMOVE THAT VG TURBO AND GET CAUGHT UP IN THE COMPLETE GARBAGE YOUR TALKING ABOUT ---- FLAT OUT --- IS A HUGE MISTAKE AND COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEYS!!

--==--

As far as the turbo slobbering...

FIRST OF ALL.. IS THE TRUCK DE-MANDATED (deleted)... and if so ... by Who?. -- Getting any custom programming reviewed/inspected would be the very top priority for it. This is because more than 90+% of all de-mandate programming IS WAY BEYOND HORRIBLE AND HARMFUL TO THE ENGINE AND/OR TURBOCHARGER AND I CAN GUARANTEE YOU BEYOND ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER THAT THE SUPER-DUPER GARBAGE-CAN REPAIR SHOP THAT YOUR SO BENT ON PRAISING IS NOT WORTH A F$UCK-STIK AT PROGRAMMING AT ALL IF THEY EVEN MILDLY SUGGEST YOU SPEND ANY MONEY ON RIPPING THAT HOLSET TURBO OFF OF THAT ENGINE ... THEY HAVE TO BE BEYOND CLUELESS ABOUT HOW THESE ENGINES WORK, AND DUMB AS TRASH FOR EVEN SUGGESTING IT!!!!!! .. NOT FOR ANY REASON.

NEXT: You have been going to a bunch of morons if you/they think that the slobber is the turbo's fault, that its bleeding oil out of its face and into the CAC unit ... THAT IS INCORRECT!... IT IS NOT THE TURBO'S FAULT!!! ... SOMEONE SOMEWHERE IS COMPLETELY CLUELESS ABOUT WHY THEY BLEED OIL!!!!. This clearly tells me that your dealing with a repair shop who has no clue what they are doing.. accusing the turbo... then accusing multiple turbos, and then suggesting all the engine butchering into oblivion to try to solve it?/.. sounds just like a typical bad delete bad repair shop to me.. START PUTTING ZERO FAITH IN THEM.. I KNOW I WOULD LOOSE TRUST IN THEM REAL FAST IF THEY HAD SPEWED THAT GARBAGE OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS AT ME!!!.. I KNOW BETTER, and so do most of the people on this forum.

THERE ARE ONLY 2 THINGS THAT CAUSE THE TURBO TO BLEED OIL OUT OF ITS FACE (unless the turbine has snapped off of it) .. AND NEITHER OF THESE CASES, WILL IT BE THE TURBO ITSELF... YOU CAN INSTALL 20 TURBO'S ON IT AND THEY WILL ALL BLEED OIL .. SOME MORE.. SOME LESS.. BUT IT IS AN ENGINE PROBLEM.. NOT A TURBO PROBLEM!!!!.

-- The PROBLEM IS EITHER ...

* EXCESSIVE CRANK CASE PRESSURE IN THE ENGINE, because the damn crank case filter is clogged up and not breathing well. There is a maintenance free crank case filter available from cummins...
REF: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...50#pid8950

-- All it is, is a blank filter element with a big hole in it, so that that engine can breath properly. ANY BUILDUP OF CRANK CASE PRESSURE OR IF THE ENGINE HAS EXCESSIVE BLO-BY FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER, IT WILL CAUSE THE TURBO TO BLEED OIL OUT OF ITS FACE... This is because the shaft seal on the turbo is like a piston ring .. and not like an o-ring ... IT IS NOT AN OIL-TIGHT SEAL AT ALL! .. and is not designed to be as such. SO THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE TURBO IF IT SLOBBERS A BIT!... IT IT IS AN ENGINE CRANK CASE PRESSURE PROBLEM OF THE ENGINE...

THAT OR ....

* The second reason they bleed oil is ... That you have a de-mandate (delete) program in your ecm and the turbo has not been re-programmed provide enough positive pressure at idle. There is a VACUUM at the intake of the engine and it is sucking oil out of the face of the turbo. This is easily corrected and tested. Here is a post that talks about this...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...0#pid60460

-===-

So .. when I was reading your post above.. I could tell that you are heavily mis-guided and have been listening to a gaggle of morons somewhere. STOP LISTENING TO THOSE PEOPLE.. THOSE MODS ARE THE WORST THINGS YOU CAN DO TO YOUR TRUCK ENGINE!. That factory mid-tier 500 series turbo and manifold that the engine already comes with CAN HANDLE MORE THAN 900 HORSEPOWER ON THAT CM871 ALREADY... without any measurable losses on a dyno vs anything else that you try to shove onto it. BELIEVE ME, I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT!. -- You will be destroying the engines ability to control proper fuel-air mix.. destroying your fuel economy enough to pay for a brand new VGT every year in fuel losses alone .. and you will be destroying your engine brake!.... plain and simple... THERE IS NO UP-SIDE WHATSOEVER TO DOING WHAT YOU MENTION!. ONLY IDIOTS WHO DO NOT KNOW ANY BETTER WOULD EVEN SUGGEST SUCH A THING!.

That Holset VGT turbo, when the engine and turbo are well cared for will easily last 600 - 800k miles of the engines life.. THERE IS NO GAINS AT ALL MONEY-WISE TO REMOVE IT.. YOU LOOSE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF $$$ IS FUEL AND EFFICIENCY LOSSES ALONE DURING THAT SPAN OF MILES AND TIME WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING SO STUPID!. There simply IS NO REASON at all to remove it .. you always loose!. Take proper care of it, and the engine .. do all recommended maintenance and such .. and it will be your best friend, and the best decision you could ever make!. Make it work FOR YOU .. not against you.

What needs to happen is to ensure you do not have a vacuum at the intake at idle... Check your CAC and all the other air/egr/manifolds, piping for leaks... make sure your air-filter is new and breathes easy... and give that engine no excuses to have a vacuum at the face of the turbo... ever .. and it will not slobber!... THERE IS NO OIL PRESSURE BEHIND THAT FACE SEAL OF THE TURBO .. ONLY DRAINAGE THAT GOES TO THE CRANK CASE. It is not the turbo's fault.

ALSO,,... and MORE IMPORTANTLY... is to ensure there is not any crank case pressure buildup in the engine. Excessive blo-by would be one cause, and the other is that the crank case filter or circuit is somehow clogged up. When the engine is not breathing properly and venting out the pressure that gets past the rings like it should. -- THIS IS actually a much bigger problem than most people think, because if it bad enough to cause the turbo to bleed oil, and especially also a replacement turbo to bleed oil too... Then it is ALSO STARVING THE TOP-END CAMS OF PROPER OIL FLOW!. YOU WILL END UP WITH WIPED OUT CAM LOBES and wiped out rockers every couple years or so AS WELL!. The reason is that there is only about 8 or 9 PSI of oil pressure at the top of the head to feed the cams and rockers. ANY PRESSURE BUILDUP IN THE ENGINE causes this little bit of pressure and oil flow to be significantly reduced... and it wipes out the cam lobes.

-- Now go ask yourself how many people that complains about wiped out cam lobes on the SIX and then,. YOU KNOW ONE OF THE MAIN CAUSES NOW!.

Next .. If a de-mandate is your eventual goal.. then that is fine.. it can be done correctly and safely.. WITHOUT ALL THE RIP-OFF SHOPS TRYING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU.. the files are on the interwebs for FREE.. and have been since about 2013 or so.. AND IT IS VERY EASY TO DO YOURSELF OR WITH MINIMAL HELP.. There is no need to pay thousands of $$$doll#ers to "have it done" when in reality, a $300 e-bay datalink adapter and a cheap-o laptop and some guidance is all it takes. People do it for themselves all the time.. or with a little bit of assistance ... CORRECTLY AND PROPERLY... and without all the $$$$ rip-off moneys that these greedy shops are trying to rape you for.

Here is where you should be reading next about this subject of bad de-mandates.. It is a plague in the trucking industry.
... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid13255

=======

Next: If your looking to bump up the Horsepower from 400 to 475 or so.. There are plenty of ways to do this. It is either a matter of using a compatible program from cummins that matches YOUR ENGINE AND TRUCK TOO (if it is not deleted and you want to stay with 100% OEM programming). Here is some info about this method...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1

--== OR ==-- what a lot of people do is simply adjust the power in the program that was meant specifically for their truck and engine. This especially the case on a lot of them because the factory programs are limited in their range of options. It is a very simple matter to adjust the power/torque in any program that you already have in there .... it is very easy to do.


Like I said at the top .. STOP DRINKING THE COOL-AIDE.. ITS GOING TO GET YOUR TRUCK AND ITS ENGINE KILLED, AND DRAIN YOUR WALLET FOR ALL YOU ARE WORTH!. It will be a road travelled that you will deeply regret.. We see people, it seems, around here about a hundred times a year make these same mistakes and when they learn the truth they all regret it big-time.


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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 Thanks given by: Chamberpains , JB379 , amermextrucker
09-27-2021, (Subject: Cm871 weight loss ) 
Post: #6
RE: Cm871 weight loss
What Rawze said for sure. And also make sure your air filter and plumbing isn't restricted.

One guy on here rented his air filter inlet tube to a squirrel while he did some other work on the truck and forgot to evict him before putting the truck back in service. I believe it caused similar problems. :-p
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 Thanks given by: Rawze , amermextrucker
09-27-2021, (Subject: Cm871 weight loss ) 
Post: #7
RE: Cm871 weight loss
(09-27-2021 )Chamberpains Wrote:  What Rawze said for sure. And also make sure your air filter and plumbing isn't restricted.

One guy on here rented his air filter inlet tube to a squirrel while he did some other work on the truck and forgot to evict him before putting the truck back in service. I believe it caused similar problems. :-p

yup... that's a inside joke for the forum here.... because my own turbo started slobbering and would not stop. here is the story:
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...9#pid59349


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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 Thanks given by: amermextrucker




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