Cummins 152mm Block

[Colter]

Grande Prairie, Alberta

[Mikanic]

I would say rebuild it, and get the inserts in. There is a shortage of parts and 4 weeks down time is alot for some units depending on things like if they are in peak season or have fat payments. There are many variables and it depends very much on which unit you are going to put this in.

If it cost less, its worth less and the customer that would be running this engine should know this. Some of my customers depending on their age, financial situation and general opinion of how they like to run their equipment are looking for subpar work and cheaper repairs.

Some scenarios you have make do with what you have and even if you shave 15% of the life in the engine you still have plenty of time to pay off this engine and are giving 85% more life to this block. Not every customer wants 54k engine repair.

Although you must note that I have 0 experience with these inserts you are talking about never seen it in one of the engines here (Ontario) but I think you should give it a go and see what happens.

[tree98]

(05-17-2022 )Mikanic Wrote:  Some of my customers depending on their age, financial situation and general opinion of how they like to run their equipment are looking for subpar work and cheaper repairs.

Atleast you admit you do subpar work......... dealers have been doing it for years but claiming otherwise.
Pretty terrible business plan if you ask me but to each his own.

[Colter]

That's exactly why I brought this up, I'm pretty sure its something specific to our region and the main cause of the high failure rate in Cummins in our area can be found in the terrible tuning threads. We wont misrepresent a repair or a component so finding out thoughts on something is valuable

[Colter]

In continuation to this post I decided against repaired block and to carry on with our normal replace if out of spec regardless of supply issue or cost.

With this toted as a reinforced block or "new block" and a huge amount of blocks being replaced
in my region due to play in upper bore (these shops can't read the manual) I've come to the conclusion that this is an utter scam. From a machinist point of view I can understand the concept but the application was questionable and now that I've had a bunch through in the past couple month it's not viable in any means. The repairs/inserts work with a small portion failing due to movement but the block is no longer reusable nor is it going to last anywhere as long as one within factory spec or viable for reuse.

Lower inserts break free and come out with liner after liner O-ring failure due to movement (or cut oring on install due to sharp edge or poor workmanship), lower insert breaks loose when touched with counterboring tool, etc. etc. I've attached photos of such inserts

This is just a new way of repairing an issue caused by the fact that poor programing is destroying engines.

   
   

Video shows insert loose while taking first clean up pass prior to measuring depth of ledge
Spinning lower insert

[tree98]

Good information thanks for following up and sharing !

[Rawze]

(08-31-2022 )Colter Wrote:  In continuation to this post I decided against repaired block and to carry on with our normal replace if out of spec regardless of supply issue or cost.

With this toted as a reinforced block or "new block" and a huge amount of blocks being replaced
in my region due to play in upper bore (these shops can't read the manual) I've come to the conclusion that this is an utter scam. From a machinist point of view I can understand the concept but the application was questionable and now that I've had a bunch through in the past couple month it's not viable in any means. The repairs/inserts work with a small portion failing due to movement but the block is no longer reusable nor is it going to last anywhere as long as one within factory spec or viable for reuse.

Lower inserts break free and come out with liner after liner O-ring failure due to movement (or cut oring on install due to sharp edge or poor workmanship), lower insert breaks loose when touched with counterboring tool, etc. etc. I've attached photos of such inserts

This is just a new way of repairing an issue caused by the fact that poor programing is destroying engines.




Video shows insert loose while taking first clean up pass prior to measuring depth of ledge
Spinning lower insert

WHY are you trying to machine an insert?.... I have never had to use inserts.. nor would I ever. -= All ya have to do is counter-bore the block to the depths recommended on this forum, and install cummins certified shimms. It is as simple as that.

Also,. The engine would not have repeating failures if it was not being abused by bad deletes and/or people who were hell bent of lugging them do an agonizing death with too tall rear ends vs the weights they are carrying.

150mm block.. or 152mm block.. it does not matter if things are done right.

[Colter]

This engine, tune and block, was done by your favorite Alberta hack shop, so yes your bang on about tuning damage

The standard counterboring procedure is quite familiar and yes is the proper fix, originally when considering the inserts I was talking about a block already cut to 032 so an insert to bring ledge back up would be a repair outside of Cummins reuse guidelines and improper. These ledges are at factory height so when they come here and we open them up there's no shims or just a 020 depending on who put them together. It would not have been a question if there was any blocks available, period.

Why cut them? because they're all machined after install in the first place. Bushings, inserts, sleeves, the vast majority regardless of application are finished after install. The machine shop that does this doesn't cut them fully to depth so they're cut again before liner is put in by this shop. They should need to be cut out to get them out if they have a proper fit, whether it's a viable repair in the first place is another matter. That is my point, they're not staying tight so its not working. If they're not loose by hand it doesn't mean they're not loose, there is no harm in counterboring .010" off a properly seated 3/8 insert let alone .001" to see if its still is seated and tight. If it spins like that then I'm condemning a block with reason other then "your liners are out a spec and its got inserts so there's nothing I can do". But all of that is in regards to something that shouldn't be happening, we don't need to spend time discussing machining practices on something that isn't working

I'm answering my own question, asking about these inserts as the last ditch effort on a block cut to 032 when they started showing up to advocating against them now that I have seen more of them and their failures.

I don't think these have gone too far outside my area but if it has or this keeps one person from pulling the trigger on a reinforced or inserted block then I'm happy.