This liner difference had us thinking!!!!!
04-18-2023, (Subject: This liner difference had us thinking!!!!! ) 
Post: #1
This liner difference had us thinking!!!!!
[attachment=8883][attachment=8883][attachment=8882]Hi all,

Firstly, thanks Rawze for the invite to join your very informative group.
I’ll start by explaining what requirements our X15 engines have down here in New Zealand,
They come only equipped with Ad Blue aftertreatment.
We run cab over Kenworths at 54 metric tons, 18 speed RR & 4.3 diffs.
From factory we order them @600 hp and don’t touch any parameters other than the Ad Blue once they’ve cleared their warranty period.

We’ve had Cummins engines for as long as I can remember, my old man ran them in the good ole big cam days and my introduction was the 444 and N14 era.
When we got the first of the Gen 1 & 2 signatures it was like the holy grail, they performed amazing, a genuine 1 million kilometre engine.
Now, before nostalgia distracts me from a very rare rant……enter the E5 & X15.

The X15 was introduced over here before the world invented Covid, so 2019.
They performed well in our tough conditions and driver feedback was positive. Our guys were all schooled on the driving style required by these engines to last.

Here’s what we’ve found is the Achilles heal….
Dropping Liners, in New Zealand we are hearing of countless X15’s dropping liners.
I had a truck drop #6 2 weeks ago and what we found is absolutely disgraceful.
Counterbore ledge in #6 was 10 thou out, #5 was 7 thou out, but before you get too excited, 1,2,3 & 4 were only 5 thou off being square!!!!!!!
If that’s not bad enough, combine an uneven ledge with the Manufacturer’s substandard brass shim and you’ve got a small window to make some money before your radiator overflow turns into a garden sprinkler.
Unfortunately the manufacturers of these engines over here are basically dropping a new liner down the hole, crushing the head on, all the time knowing it’s a temporary fix at least until it’s out of warranty before it drops it again, then sorry, rebuild time.(if your lucky)

So, I send the block away to get machined, order a liner kit and travel to our engine builder with it, here’s where things get a little weird.
I’ll attach some photos to help explain this.
The kit was unopened(important)
In the kit 4 liners were Chinese and 2 were USA.
The Chinese liner slipped straight into the block and sat square in the freshly machined block, the 2 USA liners stopped 1/2 inch before seating and locked solid.

Has anyone ever seen this? We never have, the 2 USA liners were 3 thou bigger at the top, I spoke to the people that manufacture these engines from where the kit came from and got a very generic answer.
“ they should squeeze down “
News flash…… they shouldn’t have to, there’s no shim or water seal on the liner yet, it’s a dry fit to triple check everything.
I took the 2 USA liners back and dropped 2 different Chinese liners straight in.
We’ve used aftermarket hardened shims and set the heights at 14 thou.
Reassembly began today.

Is this unusual? We’ve never seen it.
Thanks again. (Rant over)
 Thanks given by: JimT , trucklogger2
04-18-2023, (Subject: This liner difference had us thinking!!!!! ) 
Post: #2
RE: This liner difference had us thinking!!!!!
Your post screams at me a whole host of issues.

There are so many issues and problems + bad practices / horrible things that are being done that you are jumbling up all together, that I do not even know where to start.

It would take an entire book to explain all the things I see wrong,. missed, and incorrect with what you are describing, seriously.

== What I said above.. seems that you, and the community you are in there are creating all of your problems yourselves over there...

one example... like WHY THE H3ELL did you have to remove the whole engine to have it counter-bored?... that isn't right at all, as there is a tool that can be used right inside the engine bay of the vehicle to do all of that. Most places around here charge about $100 per hole to come to your shop and counter-bore one with this tool if someone does not want to buy one.

ISX/cummins mid-stop counter-bore tool...


Since you are in newZealand, instead of calling me on the phone .. I would suggest that you install the 'mumble' app on your phone (or better yet, a laptop with a microphone) and get on my mumble server to discuss it all.

Once mumble is installed, connect to server address ''. it is not listed publicly on there, you have to type it in + give your user name.

As far as what time of day/night to catch me on there ... I am usually around in the afternoon, evenings, and nights till about midnight or so on there, my local time. To see what time it is here where I live.. it is shown at the top of the forum as 'server time'.

User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
04-18-2023, (Subject: This liner difference had us thinking!!!!! ) 
Post: #3
RE: This liner difference had us thinking!!!!!
Thanks, I’ll get that app sorted, your correct in saying there’s a multitude of issues. they all lead back to counterbores that are not square and without some out interventions we would have no choice other than being submissive to the manufacturers temporary repairs and inevitable failures, been there, paid for that!!!
I am a staunch advocate for everything that is preached on here, we don’t take shortcuts of have cowboys play with ECM’s.
What’s so disappointing Rawze is that when I measure any other older block we’ve got, every ledge is perfectly square.

Sorry, I should have cleared this up also, I knew it had dropped a liner before it even got back to the yard and I had a spare block sitting here that was at the machinist before the truck got back, I was going to save a few days doing it that way, it needed a clutch done too. please also remember that our pool of workers over here restricts how quickly a mobile machinist could do it, we were told 3 weeks.

I do want a cutting tool of course, Australia has sold out and only 1 company in the states will ship them here, about 8grand our money.
That’s not the problem, it’s more knowing who to trust so far away.
I’ll use the link you gave and try them. Thanks.
04-19-2023, (Subject: This liner difference had us thinking!!!!! ) 
Post: #4
RE: This liner difference had us thinking!!!!!
Using aftermarket internal engine parts is a BIG NO NO. When you say they machined the block counterbores, I hope they did not install those {garbage after-market inserts} ???

User's Signature: Warranty??? Yeah right, I am the warranty!!!

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