Helping Nilao out with an inframe ...

[Rawze]

We got rained out on Sunday and part of Monday. Such is life in my driveway, kept everything covered really well.

Day Four (Monday) ...
We needed to determine how that failure occurred and if it was a liner issue as well. The liners all checked out good with no signs of dropping. they were all 0.009" tall and seemed to be nothing wrong with them. I do not trust this method so well for checking if a liner dropped because many times, they only do so on one side (the exhaust side) and you cannot see this by checking liner height.

I use a better method for detecting this. Here it is...

To check to see if a liner has dropped only on one side, we polished the underside of the head where the liners sit. We looked for a stepped wear pattern. For those who do not know, as a liner drops to only one side in an engine, its overall height will check out just fine, but it will also ride hard against the under-side of the head as it bounces. This creates a step in the under-side of the head as it does this. Here is what we found...

This is the under-side of the head above a good liner that has not dropped. Basically cylinders 1-4 looked similar to this ...


On the other hand, at cylinder number 5, it looked like this on the under-side of the head above where the liner sits...


It is very clear that liner number 5 was dancing on the exhaust side. This is what most likely caused the fire ring to get distorted as well. Maybe some people who build engines can learn a new trick from this technique?. It seems to be very effective in determining if someone should pull liners on an engine that the liner height checks out ok. This is also one of the reasons that you cannot re-use a head, as the few thousanths wear here will allow the new liner(s) to eventually fret again due to uneven crush pressures.


Day Five (Tuesday) ...

We pulled pistons and liners and did some running around for some stuff so that we could prepare. We also ordered liner shims and a few other items. He got with his bank and got a loan approved to pay for it all. It looks like he will be needing a new head (not reman), overhaul kit, rod and main bearings, one new injector (we found a bad spray pattern in the number 6 piston), a new air compressor (his is going out), a new crank shaft damper, new oil pump, new thermostat for coolant, new coolant filter, and a few other things.

We can only do limited things until the shim kit gets here. I will counter-bore his block for him, and we will raise the liner height to 0.015" instead of the 0.009" it was set at. This will help it tremendously. As well, we are using brass shims just like I did on my own truck. This will make the liners tighten up as they expand in the heat and allow for the extra height.

Tags:

liner issue, liner dropping, liner wear, liner fretting, underside of head, under side of head, step from liner in head, liner step

[Old Driver]

Cool more videos.... yeahhh

[Waterloo]

Just incredible what Rawze can do in his back yard... He gives new meaning to the old term, "Shade Tree Mechanic".

[biscuits and gravy]

Yep, Rawze is a good guy.

I've lived in multiple countries and learned immediately when I'm meeting an asshole of any gender, race and etc.; and Rawze is a genuine good guy.

People who know him through the Internet only, don't know how to understand him, for who he really is. Sometimes Rawze explains things with sugar coating it and other times he yells at you and says that repair mindset that someone is explaining is a moron approach. And numerous people across this forum (including myself) have been rubbed the wrong way when he offers recommendations and suggestions in a pissed off approach.

So I went to meet him for the first time and figure him out a little bit. And this is what I learned.

Whether your in person or on the internet if Rawze says your acting or approaching things like a moron it does not mean he wants to end a friendship with you or not be friends with you.

He will argue and roast you all day long until you prove him wrong (even over dinner) And if your right and he's wrong he will immediately say, "okay I was wrong." Thus far, he's always been right with my stuff in the past.

He will do this while eating lunch with you or simply having a Big Gulp drink at a trucks stop while trying to figure things out.

I have a lot of respect for Rawze, because I know him not from just the Internet.

So if he yells at you here or in person, remember he is not trying to end a friendship or an acquaintance with you. He's trying to help you and if you spend the whole day with him you'll be eating lunch or dinner or both with him and laughing your ass off later on other stuff.

My last opinion and observation on Rawze is:
Rawze doesn't know a stranger, he can connect with anyone who wants to learn or share back and forth things to learn from each other.

[Rawze]

Day 6 (Wednesday) ...
Nilao cleaned up the block really well and removed his air compressor so that he could bring it as a core when getting his new one. He also removed his crank shaft damper, it came off with a little effort, but nothing as bad as mine was.

While waiting on parts, Mr. Hag called me up in the afternoon and offered to donate more than $300 worth of brass counter-bore shims to us that he ended up not using on the last job he did for someone. We have a set on order already, so we will use the ones he offered so that we do not have to wait on them, and we will give him back the ones that come in the mail on Friday or Saturday as a courtesy.

We measured the wrist pin bearings in the rods to ensure they were still in spec. The maximum tolerances were +0.0002" to -0.0006". Well within acceptable range. No, I did not add any extra zeros when posting these numbers, I have the tools and many years of working with high precision machinery behind me to measure this accurately.

Day 7 (Thursday)...

We finished polishing the engine block and went over to Mr. Hag's shop and picked up the shims. We also had the old head in the back of the pick-up truck and he said the same thing that I did when I saw it. It definitely looked a lot more worn than it should have been for only 600k miles on it. Some soot had taken a serious toll on it for sure in its past.

We went to MHC and got the overhaul kit, crank shaft damper, rod bearings set, crank position sensor, new air compressor, a case of brake cleaner, and some other odds ans ends. I think he had to shell out $6024.xx something dollars total.

The shipping tag for the overhaul kit alone showed a weight of roughly 280 lbs for anyone curious. I thought it would be heavier than that.

In late afternoon, we got back, and started on the counter-bore process. We determined that he needed to adjust the liner step in the block from 4.725" to 4.752" to accommodate for the 0.032" brass shims, and raise the liner height to 0.015".

We got 3 of the cylinders counter-bored so far. Tomorrow, I will help him do the rest, then install the liners to their final position.

[Hammerhead]

Rawze Wrote:While waiting on parts, Mr. Hag called me up in the afternoon and offered to donate more than $300 worth of brass counter-bore shims to us that he ended up not using on the last job he did for someone. We have a set on order already, so we will use the ones he offered so that we do not have to wait on them, and we will give him back the ones that come in the mail on Friday or Saturday as a courtesy.

Big kudos to Mr Hagg for offering the liner shims! When I get to his area I'm going to take the opportunity to go meet that man. It's courtesies like this that truly build communities, and it is sorely missing these days, outside the members of this forum.
Since MD screwed me on my permit & I can't get the police escort until next week.

Rawze Wrote:In late afternoon, we got back, and started on the counter-bore process. We determined that he needed to adjust the liner step in the block from 4.725" to 4.752" to accommodate for the 0.032" brass shims, and raise the liner height to 0.015".

Since I didn't do my last inframe, and I'm still finding little things they overlooked, I have never measured the thickness of a new head ISX head gasket. Can you please explain how the .015 liner protrusion became the desired optimum?

Also, where did you get your counterbore cutter from? When I have a couple spare shekels I'd like to order one for the inevitable.

[in2trux]

Are you going to get a gearhead tune while you're there?
Please give the crew my regards,
Our truck is running great! Coming up on 20k miles since the overhaul,
ready for the 3rd oil change, even though it still looks fresh.

[Rawze]

(09-23-2016 )in2trux Wrote:  Are you going to get a gearhead tune while you're there?
Please give the crew my regards,
Our truck is running great! Coming up on 20k miles since the overhaul,
ready for the 3rd oil change, even though it still looks fresh.

He is not at gearheads, he is at my house in atlanta.

[Rawze]

(09-23-2016 )Hammerhead Wrote:  Since I didn't do my last inframe, and I'm still finding little things they overlooked, I have never measured the thickness of a new head ISX head gasket. Can you please explain how the .015 liner protrusion became the desired optimum?

Also, where did you get your counterbore cutter from? When I have a couple spare shekels I'd like to order one for the inevitable.

Liner height is based on experience with them, nothing else. We set it a bit high because of the brass shimms, and we also know that up to about 17 will work, and is required on competition engines for them to not drop a liner at 1,000 HP.

Here is the counter-bore tool I use...

https://www.apexinds.com/tools/M50145.html


===============

Day 8 (Friday)...

Counter-bored the other 3 cylinders and cleaned up the holes. Installed the new liners without the seals to check height, and determined the new liners are taller than the old ones were when seated. They are at 0.017" and I consider that a bit too high. We will re-counter-bore it tomorrow and lower them another 0.002" if it does not rain on us.

Nilao also painted the new air compressor and new crank shaft damper, and replaced the crank position sensor.