Advice for newbie

[Thinman]

* ok, I answered half my question, Cummins says Good day.
I’m a new member. No need for a life story, suffice to say I have a little mechanical background. My experience is mainly with cars, hot rods, and Harleys
I am looking at an 07 KW T 600. CM 870. Looked at it today. Two owners. A Midwest regional transfer company and a grain farmer. Odometer shows 700161 miles. The farmer said he has had the truck since July of 2012. Says he he puts on around 10 k a year, spring and fall.
The engine had been running for about a half an hour before we arrived. Engine is covered in grain and gravel road dust. No apparent oil leaks visible, no oil on ground under truck no evidence of coolant leaks. The oil pressure shows a steady 30 lbs and jumped to 40 with a nudge of throttle. Went right back to 30. The thing that gives me pause is what I believe to be the egr valve is unplugged. Removed oil fill cap and didn’t observe any blow by. Is 30 lbs about right or low? I am far from knowledgeable, but everything I looked at appeared to be original. Farmer said other than oil changes and basic pm, he hadn’t replaced anything. I called Cummins and the guy said the VIN shows nothing. I called MHC Kenworth and the only record they have showed a hose (?) problem in July of 2011. The basic truck seems solid. Is 30 lbs normal or too low? something else that gives me pause is what I believe to be the egr valve is unplugged. Mechanically seems to be a solid truck. Is the oil pressure and unplugged egr valve a major concern?
Ok.... I found the answer to oil pressure. Cummins says a minimum of 15 lbs. so I’m good there. Now the unplugged egr.

[Rawze]

(02-03-2021 )Thinman Wrote:  ... Is the oil pressure and unplugged egr valve a major concern?

Oil pressure sounds about normal to me for a truck that was not fully up to operating temp. At full operating temp it is usually 28~ish at idle and 36~ish while at highway speeds, oil temp at 215-218F, coolant at 185F.


Was there a check engine light on in the dash for the unplugged egr valve?. If not then it is likely custom-programmed and this could be considered a red flag.

Is this a CM870 or CM871? because 2007, it could be either one. Post picks of the engine area if unsure.

Does it have the VG turbo still on it? or some aftermarket garbage?

You did not mention the rear axle ratio. That contributes greatly towards engine longevity.


Pull the valve cover and inspect the overhead cams for excess wear or getting flaky at the tops of the lobes.

Was it recently inframed (another red flag)?.

Print an entire ecm report via cummins insite and post it on the forum here as well.

Overview pics posted here for opinions of the intake and exhaust aside of the engine and various parts of the truck is worth a thousand words too.

What price were they asking for it?

What type of trucking operations are you planning on doing? Dry-van/reefer?, flatbed?, heavy-haul? etc.. vs. what body style vs.trailer height, what rear ends, etc. the truck has. - Mismatched specs for your type of trucking operation can break a persons profitability in trucking.


Are you prepared to drop some money into a truck that is 13+ years old? --- I guarantee you it is going to need some work .. likely about $4,000 in parts and wrenching on it yourself just to get it somewhat reliable again. Things like wheel bearings, s-cams, shocks, u-joints, carrier bearing, gear box oil changes, running overhead valve adjustment, cab bushings, possible a new muffler due to clogging, and a whole host of other things by now.

(if it is a Cm870) - AND THEN there is the fact that it will not be allowed into California. - You plan on ever entering that state, this truck will not be allowed.

What is the HP and torque of the engine according to the data-plate?. What is it programmed to?

Last but not least, DO YOU have the $25,000 to have it inframed within the next 1.5 to 2 years?. This is a typical expectancy of any 700,000-mi truck that gets sold at its best ... at its worst, a high power level (1850 trq+), rear end ratio (tall rears like 3.36's, 2.79's etc. or taller), it needs one right now.


those are the things that run thru my head after reading your post.

[Thinman]

I don’t think anything major has been done to this truck. I talked to the mechanic at the small trucking company that owned it first. They said no records at their office. The farmer is a young guy and I think his grandpa was one who bought the truck. The mechanic barely remembers the truck. The farmer said other than oil changes at every 10k, they hadn’t done anything to it. He is getting out of farming so selling equipment. He admitted he really had no idea of the trucks real value. He said they just came up with price of 30 l. I looked it over pretty good I think. The egr valve was just unplugged at the unit. I offered him 15 K and talked to him a while. He didn’t seem offended at my offer. He said will talk to family about price and get back tomorrow or next day. If he accepts, I’ll go back down there and drive the trick for a few miles to make sure the drivetrain in up to snuff. I’m not familiar with Cummins, so am being cautious. I was a driver/dispatcher/ operations manager for a small 25 truck Reefer operation in Nebr for 26 years. We ran only T 600 with Detroit’s. I don’t recall any warning light on dash.

[Rawze]

(02-03-2021 )Thinman Wrote:  I don’t think anything major has been done to this truck. I talked to the mechanic at the small trucking company that owned it first. They said no records at their office. The farmer is a young guy and I think his grandpa was one who bought the truck. The mechanic barely remembers the truck. The farmer said other than oil changes at every 10k, they hadn’t done anything to it. He is getting out of farming so selling equipment. He admitted he really had no idea of the trucks real value. He said they just came up with price of 30 l. I looked it over pretty good I think. The egr valve was just unplugged at the unit. I offered him 15 K and talked to him a while. He didn’t seem offended at my offer. He said will talk to family about price and get back tomorrow or next day. If he accepts, I’ll go back down there and drive the trick for a few miles to make sure the drivetrain in up to snuff. I’m not familiar with Cummins, so am being cautious. I was a driver/dispatcher/ operations manager for a small 25 truck Reefer operation in Nebr for 26 years. We ran only T 600 with Detroit’s. I don’t recall any warning light on dash.

sounds to me like the typical severely neglected, bad-delete, abused truck.

no warning light in the dash and egr valve unplugged ... I would walk away unless your prepared to straighten that mess out and are prepared/have the resources to in-frame it due to damage by bad delete programming.

[Thinman]

OK, thanks to your answer, I think I figured it out after thinking and remembering. I didn`t think about it at the time I was so busy trying to think of everything I should be checking. I only sat in the cab long enough to check oil pressure, air pressure and the cab in general. I think there was a piece of tape on the tach face. So I dug around on the net and found the location of the check engine light.....voila....I think the tape was covering the place where check engine light is.

[Rawze]

First, you need to find out if it is a CM870 or CM871.

next, Assuming it is a CM870 for a moment: you need to verify if the CEL (check engine light) light is on due to the egr valve unplugged. If the CEL is on due to the egr valve being unplugged, then it has a chance that the engine has some life left in it... because it still has factory programming in it and not something someone monkeyed with.

I.E>>
* CEL is actually ON + egr valve unplugged = engine may still be somewhat ok, as factory programming will somewhat protect it from this scenario.
or...
* CEL is actually OFF + egr valve unplugged = 90% chance engine has a bad delete program in it and possible problems in its very near future, if not already.


INSPECT THE OVERHEAD CAMS!--- NEVER BUY AN ISX WITHOUT DOING THIS!. Here is a fine example (engine shown is a CM871) ...





Your posts heavily imply that you have severely limited experience towards what your looking at. --- TAKE SOME DECENT PICTURES .. SEVERAL OF THEM AT THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT, BOTH SIDES OF ENGINE ... and also of the truck in those places where it counts like the suspension, rears,. etc.. ... POST THEM ON HERE FOR SOME OPINIONS! ...

FIND OUT THE TRUCK SPECS!-- What rear ratio, tire sizes, what tranny, etc... and is it a mid-roof? or is it a tall sleeper?

you say your going to be running dry-box/reefer in the mid-west .... YOUR HOBBY DOES NO GOOD IF YOUR LOOSING MONEY FASTER THAN YOUR MAKING IT! .... Dry/reefer freight is seriously competitive, so the truck MUST BE PROPERLY SPEC'D ... and MUST BE IN GOOD, RELIABLE CONDITION to prevent D.O.T. fines and to prevent thousands$$$ in tow bills due to its years of neglect.

700k on a truck is right at that age where everything starts causing issues and causes you to end up broke down and chasing problems with it. Nothing wrong with buying a truck in this age range ... IF YOU KNOW THAT AND KNOW HOW TO FIX-ON-IT to keep it off the side of the roads. Its like buying a used house ... Looks great, seller swears nothing wrong, that they took real good care of it... like buying a used house ... only to find out 3 months after you moved in that it needs a $12,000 dollar roof job and the piping under the floor has been leaking for the last several years and now there are termites infesting it and that there are several cross-members in the floor rotted out!. -- THIS IS WAHT TO EXPECT IN TRUCKING AS WELL!--- USED = FIX-ER-UP-ER! .. and usually it is around $4,000 or so once you start to look past all the glee in your eyes and your brain settles down form the excitement of the "shiny new thing" syndrome and all the problems set in.

[Thinman]

Yup, You hit the nail on the head. Not much diesel knowledge at all. So you live and you learn. That`s why I`m here. Good advice is hard to find and I appreciate yours. Thank you
No reefer, just dry box is my want. I think I am capable of doing a lot of the work myself.

[JimT]

That price you offered would be good, but it's likely you'll need to sink another $20-30k into it in the first year. Between getting it road worthy to the unknowns that won't manifest until you start hauling with it, to all the heavy duty tool you'll need to perform some of the work yourself. Sounds like the truck was run hard for the first 5-6 years then sat for months on end between uses for the next 8 years. Beyond the engine there's gotta be a lot of things that are due to be fixed on that truck.

[Waterloo]

If you can get that truck for your offer, I think it will work out. The magic plug being unplugged would not worry me, pull the EGR valve out and clean it up. Pop the top and inspect the cams. Do an overhead, you may have to replace some of the suspension bushings and go through the driveline, new u-joints and carrier bearing, and of course the brake chambers and air lines that feed them. Just my .02 I would not be afraid at $15,000 if the truck body and interior are in good shape.