45 seconds of confusion...
05-04-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #1
45 seconds of confusion...
Hey guys, I'm new so it's story time, trying to diagnose an '06 ISX 475, CM870, 1.3M miles total, this engine will start, no questions asked, every time you hit the key, doesn't matter if it sits 10 minutes or 10 days, it starts. However, every single time it starts, hot or cold, it has a BAD misfire, sounds like a "B" John Deere for about 10 seconds, then it's like it gets one cylinder back and sounds better, then another, and within about 45 seconds of starting, it smooths out and idles normally. Then you can drive the truck with no issues, full power, no smoke, etc.
-Note 1: ABSOLUTELY no codes at all, unless it misfires long enough to throw a "cylinder unbalanced" fault, (thanks Captain Obvious).
-Note 2: Injectors and o-rings were replaced about 4k miles ago due to 25.3% fuel dilution. Turns out the cylinder head had a crack at the upper fuel port for injector #3, and at 25% fuel dilution and 600k miles since the last overhaul, it got overhauled again. This rough idle starting issue began about 1 week after the overhaul, but I have no more fuel in the oil.
-Note 3: The injectors are from Delphi, not Cummins. (not my choice)
-Note 4: Injector cutout test shows no problems, I can hear every cylinder no matter what RPM. However I do not have Insite so I can only cut out one at a time. (not my choice)
-Note 5: Cylinder performance test shows all are working correctly
-Note 6: Metering and Timing solenoids have already been replaced because someone told the owner that they were bad. I would have tested them and taken them apart, but that wasn't my call to make.
-Note 7: This truck was deleted by {THE HORRIBLE PLACE IN uTAH} at about 550k miles, dropped a valve and got overhauled at 770k miles, and then the fuel dilution overhaul at 1.3M miles.
My thoughts: probably not an electrical or sensor issue since I don't have any codes, and probably not a fuel pressure issue since the truck runs great after the miss clears up. I've tried for 3 weeks now to find a test ECM, can't find one near eastern Iowa. I watched Rawze's video and ordered the injector bubble tester kit today, maybe that will show something. Has anyone heard of anything like this before? Sorry for the rambling..
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05-04-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #2
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
FIRST AND FOREMOST!!!!!--- GET THAT HORRIBLE ENGINE KILLING DELETE PROGRAM OUT OF THAT [email protected]!!!! -- THAT PLACE MAKES THE WORST OF THE VERY WORST PROGRAMMING THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN FOR AN ISX.. THEY ARE COMPLETE UTTER BRAIN BUTCHER ENGINE KILLERS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW AN ISX ENIGNE WORKS!!! --- THEY ARE BEYOND TERRIBLE!!!!!!!


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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05-04-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #3
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
As far as the rough idle ... The most common issue like you describe is air getting into the fuel and clears up when it runs a bit.


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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05-04-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #4
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
(05-04-2021 )Rawze Wrote:  As far as the rough idle ... The most common issue like you describe is air getting into the fuel and clears up when it runs a bit.
I agree 100%. But it's strange that no matter how long the truck sits it acts the exact same every time it's started. I'm going to pray that this bubble test from your video shows me what's wrong. I'll let you know what I find.
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05-05-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #5
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
So are you gonna do something about the bad program your running? I would be a lot more concerned about that then I would be bubble testing my injectors. You already cracked one head and your on your way to cracking another.


User's Signature: Warranty??? Yeah right, I am the warranty!!!
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 Thanks given by: hhow55 , Rawze , PuroCumminsPower , Waterloo
05-05-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #6
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
His checkbook's getting low after all of this, but if I get it back to running he can make some money and get the programming fixed asap.
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05-05-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #7
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
Never enough money to fix it right but always enough money to fix it twice.


User's Signature: Warranty??? Yeah right, I am the warranty!!!
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 Thanks given by: JimT , PuroCumminsPower , Chamberpains
05-05-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #8
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
(05-05-2021 )Smokin64 Wrote:  His checkbook's getting low after all of this, but if I get it back to running he can make some money and get the programming fixed asap.


let me say it again... just in case you were not paying attention...

IF YOU HAVE A PUKE -DEE - EYE -DELETE -TUNE THEN YOU HAVE A BAD DELETE!!!!!!


From everything I can tell, and all the years I have been reviewing programs that they have made for people ... Those people seem to be the worlds foremost leading experts on how to tear up an engine with bad programming and terrible engine killing mods ... plain and simple.

it does not cost anything to fix the programming right. all ya need is a cheap adapter off e-bay and a laptop, of which any ISX owner should already have, to avoid the raping from the stealers$its every time the CEL light shows its ugly head. Many ppl on here fix the bad delete programming themselves with just a bit of guidance. Someone gotta be some kind of fool not to take what I said very seriously.

If you did not know any better before now... well, now you do know better!... you have been informed... so the next move is to actually do something about it.

Otherwise, I guess some people just want to go around running their engine down the road with bad delete programming in it that is the same thing as throwing sand in their oil purposefully, and then wondering why their crank and bearings got all chewed up 3 times in a row.

your education starts here: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid13255


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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 Thanks given by: Smokin64 , PuroCumminsPower
05-05-2021, (Subject: 45 seconds of confusion... ) 
Post: #9
RE: 45 seconds of confusion...
(05-04-2021 )Smokin64 Wrote:  -Note 1: ABSOLUTELY no codes at all, unless it misfires long enough to throw a "cylinder unbalanced" fault, (thanks Captain Obvious).

Bad programming can and will suppress fault codes from being communicated.

(05-04-2021 )Smokin64 Wrote:  -Note 2: Injectors and o-rings were replaced about 4k miles ago due to 25.3% fuel dilution. Turns out the cylinder head had a crack at the upper fuel port for injector #3, and at 25% fuel dilution and 600k miles since the last overhaul, it got overhauled again. This rough idle starting issue began about 1 week after the overhaul, but I have no more fuel in the oil.
-Note 3: The injectors are from Delphi, not Cummins. (not my choice)
-Note 4: Injector cutout test shows no problems, I can hear every cylinder no matter what RPM. However I do not have Insite so I can only cut out one at a time. (not my choice)

If your a mechanic and DON'T have the proper software to work on an engine then that IS YOUR CHOICE. Whether you buy an official version or find a free copy on the internet or pay a couple hundred on ebay for a chineese inline 6 that comes with the software. Either way, it's a tool any modern mechanic should have, just like owning wrenches and sockets.

(05-04-2021 )Smokin64 Wrote:  -Note 5: Cylinder performance test shows all are working correctly
-Note 6: Metering and Timing solenoids have already been replaced because someone told the owner that they were bad. I would have tested them and taken them apart, but that wasn't my call to make.
-Note 7: This truck was deleted by {THE HORRIBLE PLACE IN uTAH} at about 550k miles, dropped a valve and got overhauled at 770k miles, and then the fuel dilution overhaul at 1.3M miles.
My thoughts: probably not an electrical or sensor issue since I don't have any codes, and probably not a fuel pressure issue since the truck runs great after the miss clears up. I've tried for 3 weeks now to find a test ECM, can't find one near eastern Iowa. I watched Rawze's video and ordered the injector bubble tester kit today, maybe that will show something. Has anyone heard of anything like this before? Sorry for the rambling..

As for the issue, I could make guesses, but I don't know enough about the 870/871 to say anything useful. However, if you're concerned about the condition of the ecm then try giving it a few good taps while the truck is running. However it doesn't seem to match your description. Programming on the other hand is most likely the main underlying problem for this truck, coupled with (as you describe) half-assed clowns working on it that don't know what the hell they are doing and just throw parts at it until something happens.


User's Signature: Think for yourself. Question authority.
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