A BAD DELETE?
06-02-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #1
A BAD DELETE?
Hey Everyone! Im new on here and just got my first freightliner with a cummins ISX 15 :))

First off, does anyone know how to check my boost pressure? I hook up insite but dont know how to check the psi.

I had someone that is "well known" to a delete because i kept getting these sensor codes and after that, the truck was smoking from exhaust so i went ahead and blocked off what needed to be done, after that smoke went away.

The thing that makes me a little nervous is that before the delete, when i would start her up, the turbo would be whistling loud at idle and had a lot of power, now after this, the turbo sound is much much less and the power is just not there. Well the power wasnt there and then i let her idle for a good thirty minutes and tried her again and it was full of power. Im not sure if there is anyway to check these, but i have a Nexiq, TV, and necessary software to do my own diagnostic but this type of stuff is just out of my knowledge base because i dont know what settings or files were put on this truck.

I am willing to pay for someone to look it over for me, and i did read the whole delete page and wasnt expecting this from someone known out of Canada.
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06-03-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #2
RE: A BAD DELETE?
You'll need the c a l t e r m program to pull a copy of the program out of the ecm so you can email it to Rawze. You can bet it's a bad delete, if I were you I wouldn't even drive it until you get it straightened out.


User's Signature: Warranty??? Yeah right, I am the warranty!!!
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06-03-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #3
RE: A BAD DELETE?
Assuming you live in a foreign country where this stuff is allowed...

HARDWARE: There are a few hardware changes that need to be done to "de-mandate" a modern diesel engine. They are ...

-- Make the exhaust breathe as freely as possible and remove anything that can potentially trap soot.
-- Prevent EGR gas from entering the intake of the engine.
-- Remove any restrictions imposed by any Intake Throttle devices that were used to help draw EGR gas into the intake.
-- Ensure the engine is running its best.

=======================

SOFTWARE: There is no "Off Switch" for the emissions systems inside the engine computer (ECM). There are many different things inside the ecm programming that need to be changed to correctly "de-mandate" a modern diesel engine. All of them are separate processes and need to be performed independently of each other. They are ...

-- Prevent the engine from switching into any of its "operating modes" that are still expecting emissions/egr gas.

-- Each emissions related input sensor such as NOx sensors, EGR related sensors, DPF, DOC, SCR Temperature and flow sensors, DEF various fluid sensors, etc. need to be switched off in the programming. Each of them get done separately, as there is no master off-switch for any of those devices.

-- Each emissions related output device such as the Doser injector, The EGR valve, Intake Air throttle device, DEF pump, DEF heater, DEF Doser, etc. all need to be switched off in the programming. Again, Each of them get done separately, as there is no master off-switch for any of those devices.

-- Each sensor and device also needs any in-range, out-of-range, and "shorted to power/grounded out", and "Communications fault" detection switched off. Again, Each of them get done separately, as there is no master off-switch for any of those devices.


-- Switching off of all higher level emissions systems management for those devices mentioned above.

-- Switch off all fall-back emissions control that attempts to take over and lower engine emissions directly by means of reducing power, torque, and altering the combustion processes heavily.

-- Switch off each of the Shutdowns and derates for every disabled sensor and emissions system. Again, Each of them get done separately, as there is no master off-switch for any of those devices.


-- Switch off all higher level EGR gas requests that offset the combustion process of the engine.

Once all the above is done, the ecm will no longer know how to properly operate the engine safely at all. The injection timing, fuel-air-mix, turbo boost, and all the other combustion processes will continue to expect all of the things that were switched off above. The ecm has no magic dust inside it to make itself run the engine right at all after this.

- The whole idea and concept of "Switching things off and keeping the ECM programming "as factory set as possible" is nothing but a pipe dream fantasy that has no basis in reality. - This is exactly WHY there are so many bad delete programs out there. People keep making some lame assumption that the ecm will somehow make the engine run right again if they simply leave the engne mode control and the combustion processes untouched.... or perhaps only some injection timing tweaked on a bit. They assume like an idiot that somehow it will know what to do and not tear the engine up. Unfortunately, there is no such A.I. at all. That ECM is hard-coded, similar to a hard-wired circuit board would be. An altered set of signals in (all those systems deleted) = nothing but incorrect signals out. That ecm assumes all that stuff present and working and continues to use the same old assumed data ... even if every sensor in the thing is disconnected and screaming that all the items are missing.

Because this is the case, the following BARE MINIMUM also needs to happen ...

-- New intake boost level mappings need to be created and installed for a no-egr engine. This is how the Fuel-Air-Mix itself is controlled in the ISX engines.
-- Oxygen Fuel Control mapp(s) need to be edited to accommodate the new fuel-air-mix.
-- New injection timing maps (one for each engine operating mode used) need to be created completely from scratch, as there are none in the ecm at all that will operate the engine correctly any more.

All of those things need to be individually re-programmed/re-mapped to provide the correct combustion again. Otherwise the engine will suffer a severely shortened engine life. It has nothing to do with "weaker metals" and all sorts of other garbage that people imply. It simply has to do with the ecm not knowing how to run an engine with those things yanked off it.

-- After all the combustion is corrected, some older model engines still need some additional help. The CM870 era engines have some of its fall-back emissions and derate control logic in the ECM's internal RAM memory only. It is impossible to change those settings inside a flash (delete) file before hand. It has to be done while connected live to the ecm AFTER it has been flashed with a delete program. Otherwise that all too familiar boost-up and drop back type of derate that truck owners see with them will never go away.

And then there is all the optional stuffs. Things like ...

--- Removal of various performance and fuel limiters.
--- Any power/torque changes as requested by the vehicle owner.
--- Removal of any non-emissions related shutdowns and derates that the vehicle owner does not want to happen.
--- Removal of any acceleration engine up/down rate limiting that the vehicle owner does not want in place.

================

As someone can see, there is a LOT,... in fact, a WHOLE LOT of things that needs to happen to properly de-mandate one of these engines. More then 95% of all shops that claim to be able to "delete" a truck fall far short of this and that is why the ISX does not last as long as it should afterwords. Most truck owners will report that their engine seems to run smooth, or "better" to them, even with really bad programming, but the reality is that the engine is tearing itself up internally, driver completely unaware of it.

-- Pull a copy of the program out of the ecm. e-mail it to me for a proper review so that you can see exactly what someone did inside your ecm programming. - Assume your program is bad... real bad... like, running the engine with sand in the oil kinda bad ... until you do this.

I PM"d you my number and e-mail address.


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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 Thanks given by: TRUCK365
06-03-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #4
RE: A BAD DELETE?
(06-02-2021 )armana87 Wrote:  Hey Everyone! Im new on here and just got my first freightliner with a cummins ISX 15 :))

First off, does anyone know how to check my boost pressure? I hook up insite but dont know how to check the psi.

I had someone that is "well known" to a delete because i kept getting these sensor codes and after that, the truck was smoking from exhaust so i went ahead and blocked off what needed to be done, after that smoke went away.

The thing that makes me a little nervous is that before the delete, when i would start her up, the turbo would be whistling loud at idle and had a lot of power, now after this, the turbo sound is much much less and the power is just not there. Well the power wasnt there and then i let her idle for a good thirty minutes and tried her again and it was full of power. Im not sure if there is anyway to check these, but i have a Nexiq, TV, and necessary software to do my own diagnostic but this type of stuff is just out of my knowledge base because i dont know what settings or files were put on this truck.

I am willing to pay for someone to look it over for me, and i did read the whole delete page and wasnt expecting this from someone known out of Canada.

Please do not think of doing anything different than what Rawze has told you. Rawze took care of my engine over a year ago. I followed every direction he told me, EXACTLY. It wasn't an easy process for me, but it was worth every difficulty faced.
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06-05-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #5
RE: A BAD DELETE?
Since the original poster only posted once and disappeared, I don’t feel too bad about posting my question here.

Information purpose only for now.

What’s required to empty cans and reprogram for a dpf only system? Or who can I be directed to for a correctly done job? Can it be done solely by me or does it need to be at a shop?
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06-05-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #6
RE: A BAD DELETE?
If you have an 871 or 2250 you can do the programming yourself if you have a laptop with c a l t e r m and an inline device.

You'll need either the @m*m^2 or Africa overlay depending on which engine you have. Both of these can be found online for free.

For the mechanical side of it you'll need to Hollow out the cans COMPLETELY, replace imap and exhaust pressure sensors (preferably before starting it after the demandate), install a block plate to keep egr gas from getting into the intake, install maintenance free crankcase filter. Install boost and pyro gauge or pyro at the very least.

If you don’t want to bother trying to figure out the programming side of it or you have an 870,2350 or X15 just PM running rough here on the forum and he can do it for you remotely. You'll still need an inline adapter and laptop though.

If you were going to take it to a shop, the ONLY shop in the USA to take it to is Mr hagg down in Georgia.


User's Signature: Warranty??? Yeah right, I am the warranty!!!
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 Thanks given by: Waterloo
06-05-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #7
RE: A BAD DELETE?
(06-05-2021 )Lead_sled Wrote:  Since the original poster only posted once and disappeared, I don’t feel too bad about posting my question here.

Information purpose only for now.

What’s required to empty cans and reprogram for a dpf only system? Or who can I be directed to for a correctly done job? Can it be done solely by me or does it need to be at a shop?

Tree is correct, DO NOT DOUBT HIM. And I sent you a PM...


User's Signature: 2008 ProStar, OEM 600hp CM-871, 18spd, 3:42, in framed in Rawze's driveway. Every day is a fresh new episode of, "The Twilight Zone"... Rod Serling lives rent free in my head. I can smell the Chesterfields.
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06-09-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #8
RE: A BAD DELETE?
Thank you everyone! Im going to hook up my laptop tomorrow and pull the info off. I have replied to everyones PM!
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06-09-2021, (Subject: A BAD DELETE? ) 
Post: #9
RE: A BAD DELETE?
remember, if you have a SCR engine (with DEF) then you need to hollow out the SCR canister too, otherwise it will act like the dpf filter and eventually clog up with soot with no way to clean itself and no way to warn you what's happening.


User's Signature: "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
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