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RE: CM 2250 issues - Waterloo - 07-30-2017
(07-30-2017 )Squish099 Wrote:(07-30-2017 )Waterloo Wrote:(07-30-2017 )Squish099 Wrote:(07-30-2017 )Fergie Wrote: I've got the dual exhaust so the SCR is above the doc/dpf under passenger seat.
Fergie, need to make sure on that. Everything I've seen from Paccar with a 2250 is from turbo to the cans (doc, then dpf, they are v-banded together under passenger side), it exits the can going vertical, then turns a 90° elbow back horizontal pointed back forward under the driver's seat, as it crosses over the driveshaft you'll find the decomposition tube (need to check for the "volcano" that Def will sometime clog up here), then another 90 down into front of the scr (big filter no v-bands, just the straps that hold the sensors to it) out of the scr either vertical or horizontal depending on the exhaust layout. If its got dual stacks it usually comes out of the scr goes to a y (or splitter) then separates to the stacks..
Oh man... This goes here, this goes there... Not knocking you Squish, just the insanity of getting a once reliable machine down the road. How far we have "progressed"? I went through Monroe Michigan today, they had a horse show going on, and had the Budweiser Clydesdales there... See where I am going? I wonder if they needed REAL horsepower to get them to the show?
I get where you're coming from.. I live in St. Louis and go to grants farm where the Clydesdale are stabled.. It's a tourist attraction.. They use an international i9400 that doesn't have these problems.. Lol.. I found it out of place..
LMAO!!!! Figures! I saw the trailers, no trucks... ;-)
RE: CM 2250 issues - Fergie - 07-30-2017
(07-30-2017 )Squish099 Wrote:(07-30-2017 )Fergie Wrote: I've got the dual exhaust so the SCR is above the doc/dpf under passenger seat.
Fergie, need to make sure on that. Everything I've seen from Paccar with a 2250 is from turbo to the cans (doc, then dpf, they are v-banded together under passenger side), it exits the can going vertical, then turns a 90° elbow back horizontal pointed back forward under the driver's seat, as it crosses over the driveshaft you'll find the decomposition tube (need to check for the "volcano" that Def will sometime clog up here), then another 90 down into front of the scr (big filter no v-bands, just the straps that hold the sensors to it) out of the scr either vertical or horizontal depending on the exhaust layout. If its got dual stacks it usually comes out of the scr goes to a y (or splitter) then separates to the stacks..
I will double check today but here's what I remember from laying under it the other day. The exhaust coming from the turbo enters the bottom can that runs parallel to the frame. It's about 3.5' long. Exits a 90 going up then another 90 headed back to the front of truck. This small pipe I think is the second tube. It's got a sensor and looks like a Doser. Haven't tracked it down yet but the wire and hose coming from it head over the frame to the general direction of the def tank. This pipe makes a 90 and enters a second can that's runs parallel with frame, same size as first can from what I recollect.
My stubbornness only comes into play when the third party shops first thing they say is to demandate and want you to put on new turbo. All for a small fee of $10k. I'm not stubborn enough to ignore your advice. I've got alot of blind faith in you guys here. Never met anyone but after the reading I've done you guys know your stuff.
RE: CM 2250 issues - Rawze - 07-30-2017
(07-30-2017 )Fergie Wrote: My stubbornness only comes into play when the third party shops first thing they say is to demandate and want you to put on new turbo. All for a small fee of $10k. I'm not stubborn enough to ignore your advice. I've got alot of blind faith in you guys here. Never met anyone but after the reading I've done you guys know your stuff.
You were at least smart enough not to get caught up in bad de-mandate rope-a-dope game. I have seen lots of guys do just what those bad delete shops are telling you and spend $60,000 or $70,000 in repeating engine failures because they are too stubborn to listen to reason and keep argue to you "It can't be my delete, I spent $10k or 14k on this delete, It must have been good because it was so expensive and by a big name company with a fancy web site and hot chicks at their booth at the truck shows". -- When in fact they should have said to themselves -- "I can't believe I got taken advantage of so badly and am now worse off than when I had those dpf cans under my truck".
I say keeping your mandate is commendable and noble. I will not tell someone to remove that stuff, that is why I have videos on how to keep it going themselves. Your primary mistake was to run off to the stealershits every time that CEL light came on. Just think if you, before ever going to the stealershit, had done a full EGR tune-up on it, pulled off your DOC and DPF cans and sent them for cleaning and inspection. Cleaned / inspected the decomp tube and SCR injector, replaced all 3 NOx sensors if they were more than 250k miles old, replaced the doser / cleaned out all the EGR piping. You would have spent about $1500 or so and saved $10,000 in labor costs and lots of false guessing and false diagnosis. You even state clearly in your story that they really did nothing to solve your issues and scoffed at you for even trying to fix your truck yourself.
I read stories like that and it makes me sad. Sad that there are OEM facilities out there simply NOT doing their jobs but are hell bent on bending you over for a lot of expensive parts instead of performing repairs that are known to make a difference. Sad that they create this market of, and need for doing shady things just to keep the equipment running because the OEM has no actual solution. Sad because there are shops and guys who would have you go rush out and spend $10k on a horrible style of "Alternative solution" simply because it is expensive and all their buddies did it that way, then wonder why 70% of engines done that start having repeating head gasket and other serious failures after a while. - Sad that bad deletes are everywhere for these engines because de-mandating is big money and big business that does nothing but exploit the guy just trying to make his living.
It sounds like you are faced with 2 choices.
* If you keep the components on your truck, you will have to get the software for the engine, install a bypass filter system to keep the soot at bay and learn to work on it yourself regularly if you want to have any kind of decent solution to having a reliable piece of equipment. This is the LEAST you need to do and own one of these modern emissions beasts.
* You could De-mandate it, but the problem is that 99.7% of every single thing you will hear, places you seek out, price up, discuss, and seek information towards this solution are hell bent on exploiting you + have very bad information and practices that have spread like a virus amongst that community of those shops who do those things. The truck owner is starring at pretty cotton candy, hot-dogs, and everything he ever dreamed. For the low low price of a few thousand dollars, you suddenly realize that it was all junk-food and makes your engine sick to its stomachache, it dying a slow agonizing death. There is however that 0.3% possibility of getting this solution right, but difficult to find.
Neither of theses decisions are easy. No one wants to hear that if they own one of these newest style of trucks, that to be even slightly successful, they will have to become their own mechanic. They also don't want to get duped into a bad de-mandate and end up with a different set of problems, trading DPF issues with more expensive engine failure issues. Myself, putting this all into perspective as someone who knows of at least 1,000 or more people that were faced with exactly your troubles and in your current situation can tell you what I think basing on what I have seen those 1,000+ people have done including their hardships both before and after. This is what I would have to say if I were standing there in that situation. This is considering what you do for a living and what you use your truck for as well as all other factors given so far ...
Sure,it would be very commendable to keep the system intact, and you had better believe I would have a wrench in my hands and an inline-5 (or 6) adapter on order by now just so I never had to rely on those people and places who want more money form me than they want to help me. I would at least have the most basic tools to know my truck and its health, even if I didn't want to work on it. I think every emissions truck should come with the means to talk to the computer to find out what is wrong, de-mandate or not. You had better believe that I would want that power to make my own decisions as a truck owner towards repair and troubleshooting in my own hands on at least a basic level.
If my emissions were acting up, or if I had just purchased it, I would be (Solution A) taking every one of those systems apart and cleaning them out, inspecting them, etc. at least ONCE on a basic level and replacing things that are old, clogged, and look like they will give issue. A basic "EGR tune-up" at the very least. If this made it run good and the problems all stop,... I would likely run it down the road and start investing in a bypass filtration system to keep the soot out of the oil, investing in tools to take tune-ups and such further, etc. --- OR --- Working towards (Solution B). Start considering what alternative solution (towards a permanent fix / de-mandate) there was that was not over-priced, was the least intrusive, most reliable, that extended life to the engine and truck as a whole. There are proper solutions out there than can be found. Others on this forum are pointing you towards some of them in a very real way.
Solution A, if it worked and got you going is the short term solution, and if I spent a little bit of money and got my truck going,... still eventually you will face solution B unless you are willing to chase Solution A all the time regularly. That is how those emissions systems things are. They do not keep themselves fixed for long periods of time. It is constant work but does keep you going if kept in check BEFORE the CEL lights start coming on. I commend those who do this, but they all end up at solution B by the time their truck gets really old and they get tired of chasing/ keeping after it.
Solution B is the scariest but the most headache free long term if done correctly. Problem is that it is damn near impossible to get it done 100% correctly. You can do some work yourself and have someone to the "programming" and get it close, and that works if you use someone who does MM correctly like Unilevers and/or Gearhead for remote tuning typically. I know of no one else who does things "remotely" who actually get it right like those guys do. Many claim they do but upon inspection for their work, they fall very short. To ensure 100% correctness of such a process though, it would mean a trip to Gearhead or Mr. Hag down in Atlanta. Either way, it is no where near $10k (less than 3k actually) if you take to one of them and even less if done remotely. It does not require the removal of any factory components, is not intrusive, and does not shorten the life of any engine components including the turbo when done right, despite what the other 99.7% of idiot shops say. Either of those solutions is what the others have been suggesting to you already and I don't blame them.
Myself, I would have fiddled with Solution A a bit and jumped right onto Solutuion B if it did not have a solid result right away. But at the same time, I am very picky and am always considering the fact my engine costs $36,000 to replace if something were to go wrong in even the slightest way.For me, this would have meant a trip to Mr. Hags shop (or Gearhead) even if I had to bobtail there 3,000 miles at my own expense. Have him go through the truck thoroughly because emissions issues stem from engine issues. That is nothing to play with. All the DE-mandating in the world will not fix the underlying engine problems that may still be present. Mr. Hag goes all out to ensure those issues are remedied in the process of the de-mandate as standard practice and it takes them about 10 hours to go through one. Gearhead is the same way, but to have it 100% right, taking your truck somewhere and being involved in the process with a professional is the way to go. Even if you have to bobtail it half way across the country to get it there. The difference to me would be worth every mile of the trip.
That is just what I think about it, no one has to agree.
RE: CM 2250 issues - Fergie - 07-30-2017
Thanks for the reply Rawze, thanks for this site and all the info on the internet about this stuff. Had me a nice chat with Magard this morning and I've got a pm into unilievers.
RE: CM 2250 issues - zyNoT - 07-30-2017
(07-29-2017 )Squish099 Wrote: Where are you located? De-mandated is around a 1/3 of that quoted cost (but there are risks), that 10k quote is them bending you over a barrel. Next will be that they need to remove the vg turbo and a new exhaust manifold to the tune of another 7k (see where this is going).. As far as the numbers I would have to go back and research them to see.. I'm sure Rawze or someone else will chime in that knows straight away..
I would hope no one would remove the VG turbo. Bad idea all around, especially on this engine.
RE: CM 2250 issues - Fergie - 08-01-2017
While I wait to hear back from Unilever, I've got a question about gauges. I do not have a pyrometer or turbo boost. Will mechanical ones do the trick?
RE: CM 2250 issues - Squish099 - 08-01-2017
Glowshift is what most of us are using, not sure about the pyrometer but boost is manual, I believe the Pyro is too..
RE: CM 2250 issues - Midland - 08-01-2017
I use VDO available from Summit Racing, etc etc etc. i had one minor product problem and one major customer service issue with GS. The VDO pyrometer in particular is easier and I think more reliable as the cables are extended and the probe is replaceable without purchasing an entire new harness. I think in most cases mechanical are preferable. The Glowshift will allow you to "match" the color of your other gauges.