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RE: Stemco wheel seals - Rawze - 10-17-2020
(10-16-2020 )bwake Wrote: ...
A wheel bearing will actually last longer if there is a small amount of pre-load on it but there is no possible way for a person to test pre-load in a verifiable manner.
...
Pre-load is measured in length (inche or metric). Pre-load can easily be measured (non-sleeved bearings) by simply using a dial indicator. Whoever told you this is mis-informed and don't know squat about applying standard pre-load tightening methods on industrial machinery.
While there is still back-lash on the system, measure and determine how far to turn the tightening nut to remove 0.001" of backlash (assuming everything is clean and measurements are accurate). This shows how far to turn the nut for every 0.001" of pre-load. -- Then while tightening, and there is no more backlash and all play is removed, add the required amount of pre-load by turning the nut however many 0.001" more.
I have done this many times with people who have come over here with sleeveless hubs that want to learn how to pre-load their sleeveless bearings properly using a dial indicator. - Most of the time it equates to roughly about 50 - 70 ft-lbs of torque on the bearing nut (i.E.> the old addage that mechanics sometimes use of tightening the nut to 50-70 ft-lbs on sleeveless hubs and is also stated as such in some hub bearing manuals). Using torque alone to set pre-load is not accurate though, and on some of the larger spindle hubs, it can be much higher than 70 ft-lbs... hence measuring it accurately like mentioned.
Of course, this also assumes someone has seated everything properly by tightening the assembly up at maximum component torque to seat everything first, then releasing it. That step is very important to ensure all bearing races are properly seated + the inner bearing race that mates to the spindle is press-fit with proper pressure so that it does not spin later agiast the spindle and chew it up.
On another side note that is related ... for dump-truck and heavy haul guys out there who are using sleeveless hub bearings ... Loc-tite-609 is your friend on a spindle where the bearing race sits on the spindle when it comes to severe duty/exceptionally high load applications. Spindle galling and/or failure can be avoided on sleeveless bearings if things are installed properly + 609 is used to help prevent slippage under heavy side-loading of the hub.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - t700 - 10-17-2020
(10-17-2020 )Rawze Wrote:(10-16-2020 )bwake Wrote: ...
A wheel bearing will actually last longer if there is a small amount of pre-load on it but there is no possible way for a person to test pre-load in a verifiable manner.
...
Pre-load is measured in length (inche or metric). Pre-load can easily be measured (non-sleeved bearings) by simply using a dial indicator. Whoever told you this is mis-informed and don't know squat about applying standard pre-load tightening methods on industrial machinery.
While there is still back-lash on the system, measure and determine how far to turn the tightening nut to remove 0.001" of backlash (assuming everything is clean and measurements are accurate). This shows how far to turn the nut for every 0.001" of pre-load. -- Then while tightening, and there is no more backlash and all play is removed, add the required amount of pre-load by turning the nut however many 0.001" more.
I have done this many times with people who have come over here with sleeveless hubs that want to learn how to pre-load their sleeveless bearings properly using a dial indicator. - Most of the time it equates to roughly about 50 - 70 ft-lbs of torque on the bearing nut (i.E.> the old addage that mechanics sometimes use of tightening the nut to 50-70 ft-lbs on sleeveless hubs and is also stated as such in some hub bearing manuals). Using torque alone to set pre-load is not accurate though, and on some of the larger spindle hubs, it can be much higher than 70 ft-lbs... hence measuring it accurately like mentioned.
Of course, this also assumes someone has seated everything properly by tightening the assembly up at maximum component torque to seat everything first, then releasing it. That step is very important to ensure all bearing races are properly seated + the inner bearing race that mates to the spindle is press-fit with proper pressure so that it does not spin later in the spindle and chew it into pieces.
We were at Rawze's in March, he showed us how to adjust wheel bearings & preload utilizing a dial indicator. We have adjusted all bearings on tractor & trailer using this method also use Stemco's protorque nut & keeper. Stemco Discover seal is our choice as we run long haul.
I would advise against using Lucas hub oil as it thicker not allowing to vent properly.
We kept blowing seals after 6 months using the Lucas. We went to 75/90 synthetic which solved the problem.
Thanks again to Rawze for helping us.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - bwake - 10-17-2020
(10-17-2020 )Rawze Wrote:(10-16-2020 )bwake Wrote: ...
A wheel bearing will actually last longer if there is a small amount of pre-load on it but there is no possible way for a person to test pre-load in a verifiable manner.
...
Pre-load is measured in length (inche or metric). Pre-load can easily be measured (non-sleeved bearings) by simply using a dial indicator. Whoever told you this is mis-informed and don't know squat about applying standard pre-load tightening methods on industrial machinery.
While there is still back-lash on the system, measure and determine how far to turn the tightening nut to remove 0.001" of backlash (assuming everything is clean and measurements are accurate). This shows how far to turn the nut for every 0.001" of pre-load. -- Then while tightening, and there is no more backlash and all play is removed, add the required amount of pre-load by turning the nut however many 0.001" more.
I have done this many times with people who have come over here with sleeveless hubs that want to learn how to pre-load their sleeveless bearings properly using a dial indicator. - Most of the time it equates to roughly about 50 - 70 ft-lbs of torque on the bearing nut (i.E.> the old addage that mechanics sometimes use of tightening the nut to 50-70 ft-lbs on sleeveless hubs and is also stated as such in some hub bearing manuals). Using torque alone to set pre-load is not accurate though, and on some of the larger spindle hubs, it can be much higher than 70 ft-lbs... hence measuring it accurately like mentioned.
Of course, this also assumes someone has seated everything properly by tightening the assembly up at maximum component torque to seat everything first, then releasing it. That step is very important to ensure all bearing races are properly seated + the inner bearing race that mates to the spindle is press-fit with proper pressure so that it does not spin later agiast the spindle and chew it up.
On another side note that is related ... for dump-truck and heavy haul guys out there who are using sleeveless hub bearings ... Loc-tite-609 is your friend on a spindle where the bearing race sits on the spindle when it comes to severe duty/exceptionally high load applications. Spindle galling and/or failure can be avoided on sleeveless bearings if things are installed properly + 609 is used to help prevent slippage under heavy side-loading of the hub.
While I don't disagree with your statement, it could easily get an untrained person into some hot water based on the fact that there is no way to verify by measurement that it was done correctly, once finished. 10 in lbs and 100 ft lbs will all show no end play on a dial indicator. For someone that doesn't understand what they are doing, this could be a catastrophic mistake. This is the reason they recommend .001 to .005 as a final end play, it's a measurable specification that ensures that it isn't over torqued.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - Rawze - 10-19-2020
(10-17-2020 )bwake Wrote: While I don't disagree with your statement, it could easily get an untrained person into some hot water based on the fact that there is no way to verify by measurement that it was done correctly, once finished. 10 in lbs and 100 ft lbs will all show no end play on a dial indicator. For someone that doesn't understand what they are doing, this could be a catastrophic mistake. This is the reason they recommend .001 to .005 as a final end play, it's a measurable specification that ensures that it isn't over torqued.
I guess he has never been around very many high-precision machinists.
A person under trained in proper methods should not be working on industrial equipment.. this includes class-8 trucks. Makes me wonder what they are teaching in diesel mechanic schools these days. the words "certified" scares me and mis-leads the public. Matter of fact, how many mechanics any more even own a dial indicator.. this scares me most of all.
btw: 0.005" play in a class-8 hub bearing eats the inside edges of the tires up .. seen this plenty of times.. and that is way too much play. - if someone worked on my truck and set my hub backlash to this, I would be asking them for the money for replacement tires.up front too to cover the added costs of tire replacements. - Someone (referring to the "they" you speak of arbitrarily) needs to throw away their training manuals and get with the real world there.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - Chamberpains - 10-20-2020
Things taught in diesel mechanics schooling has nothing to do with using your brain. This is not a joke or exaggerated. They are courses on what a manufacturer says are tolerances and maybe a quick gist of why the tolerances are there and failure may happen if "whatever" is within the range. There is no further insight, instructions.... the thing I have screamed since I learned how to hold a wrench.... WHY?!?! Why are these the tolerances? Why is one end of the tolerances better in some circumstances and the other for others.... a whole pile of WHY questions that ALL instructors are completely annoyed at answering and usually get a blank stare and a response of thats the way it is... or because they said so... And this is a good education for diesel repair. Not the everyday tech. They get way worse knowledge than that. Usually an in house, in the breakroom 30 min show and tell by a manufacturer rep. Then right back out on the floor to tear in to, to replace, not to repair.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - 74bassman - 10-20-2020
I'am using stemco pro-torq on the steers. I have my dail indicator, nut what should the torque? I have the Henderickson mono leaf, and have the spacer. Stemco says with the spacer go with the manufactures spec. I go to Henderickson and the say use the truck manufactor spec. Appearinly there is no international dearlership that replaces wheel bearings no one knows.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - 74bassman - 10-20-2020
Rush here in Atlanta told me 175 to 200 ft lbs, I did this. The hub spins, no binding or anything, but it feels to tight. total end play 0 to 1 thousand. I use Stemco way and i can turn the nut by hand with no resistance. the hub spins freely, total end play 3 to 4 thousands.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - Rawze - 10-20-2020
(10-20-2020 )74bassman Wrote: Rush here in Atlanta told me 175 to 200 ft lbs, I did this. The hub spins, no binding or anything, but it feels to tight. total end play 0 to 1 thousand. I use Stemco way and i can turn the nut by hand with no resistance. the hub spins freely, total end play 3 to 4 thousands.
There are different assembly options for the hendrickson axles. Hence no specific spec.
That older spec of 185 ft-lbs (to 200) is for the origional Hendrickson brand spindles. They are not so common any more and have a smaller size spindle nut. If yours is larger nut, like say a 2.5" socket size + ... it is most likely a Comnet spindle, not a hendrickson... hence the recommendation of "see the truck maker"...lol
The Conmet (the brand on my prostar 2011) manual for the front hub spindle nut for the hendricksons says 200 - 300 ft-lbs on the front hub. I set mine to 250 ft-lbs, then tightened until the locking key went in and they came out prefect.
If you not sure what hubs you have, post a picture of the hub before the brake drum goes on, and state the size socket required for the spindle nut too.
RE: Stemco wheel seals - 74bassman - 10-20-2020
The hub does say connect, and the Stemco nut is 2 1/2 inches. The original nut is a 1 1/2, I think.