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Help choosing an 871 truck - serv - 02-03-2018
Hi, my name is serv. I haul tires for a living. We run 4 trucks about 100,000 miles each per year. Most of our loads are empty one way and ~60,000 lbs. gross loaded on our way back (on flat ground). I've been reading quite a bit of info here regarding isx engines and I've tenatively decided to try to find a used international daycab with an 871. We do all of our own mechanic work in house.
Sometime back, I met the owner of what appears to be very organized local trucking company. He runs 350 newish petes and kw's over the road. Says he has 2.5 trailers for every truck in his fleet. His company really has it together and they are currently the fastest growing local fleet. He told me about a used truck lot down the road that he owns and that they turn as many as 50 trucks per month through. He is not selling trucks there that he runs in his fleet. He said they have great used truck sources and hand pick every truck that goes through that lot. He also said that if any customer buys a truck and something goes wrong with the truck right away, they do what they have to and make it right.
I looked up the truck lot and found a couple of trucks on their website that fit what I'm looking for and called them to ask a few questions. The trucks are a 2009 transtar with a 380hp isx (560k miles) and a 2011 prostar, isx (760k miles) and no def tank. From what I've gathered here, a 2011 that didnt come with a def tank should be the last of the 871's. I asked the sales guy if he minds if I take a truck or two to have my mechanic take a look. He said I could bring my mechanic to their lot and look at it there. Really what I was trying to do was get possession of the truck just long enough so I could get it to my house and pop the valve cover off and have a look in there, besides the other stuff I'd like to check. So then I asked if he would mind if we take the valve cover off at his facility and in a joking manner he said "while you're at it, bring the parts over and overhaul the entire engine". He said he was would have to get permission for such an invasive procedure but he said "we've never had engine problems on trucks that leave this lot". I told him that one of the first things I would do before ever putting a used truck on the road is remove the valve cover to inspect and run the rack/overhead anyway.
So it sounds to me that the guy at the lot would rather me not look under the valve cover until it belongs to me. Both trucks are priced around 20 grand and look clean by the pics. I know very well how much pics can hide. Trucks are located around 25 minutes from where I live but also 4 hours from my yard where we do our own mechanic work.
I leased a new maxxforce prostar back in 2013 from idealease and everything about truck did great except emissions related problems that resulted in over fifty visits to their dealership in the five or so years I've had it. They furnished up a loaner/sub truck every time but looking back, the down time cost us a fortune over the term of the lease. We are turning in that truck on Monday with ~500k miles on it now. Our lease truck is in great shape and was always an otherwise solid truck. Believe it or not, the maxxforce engine served us well besides all the problems that stemmed from the (non def) emissions system. If I had to do the lease again, I wouldn't. Too many people are getting paid on that deal. Besides the losses on downtime, the monthly lease and mileage payments are astronomical. The payments amounted to around 40 grand per year on that one. This lease truck did get us out of a bind back in 2013, But I don't feel like selling my soul again this time around. We are a lot further along and ahead on our maintenance capabilities since we were prior to 2013.
Back to the next truck I need to bring in as a replacement for my lease truck, should I insist on looking under the valve cover or no deal or would pulling an oil sample get me info on what I'm looking to avoid in an engine? Is there a better way to pull an oil sample than the oil pan drain plug? I don't mind planning and doing a proper complete engine overhaul down the road but I need something that will give me the best chance at 200k-250k miles with religious maintenance on my part and starting with a complete and thorough emissions tuneup. Any advice on trying to go forward with this? I realize some there is a crap shoot element in buying a used truck but it's no different buying a new truck. Two weeks ago, I was set on ordering a new 2019 Pete 567 with the Cummins X15 but for now, Ive talked myself out of it. I was a guinea pig for the pre def maxxforce. I get the feeling that if anything happens to a brand new truck under warranty, the truck might get stuck at the dealership for weeks/months for repair. Our local major dealers are always way behind on warranty work in my area. I would like to have more control over repairs myself as I'm comfident we could move faster than a dealership would due to the urgency to get back on the road on our part. Thanks for reading.
https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/19850955/2009-international-transtar-8600?dlr=1&etid=1&pcid=2001125377
https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/22800413/2011-international-prostar?dlr=1&etid=1&pcid=2001125377
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - Nilao - 02-03-2018
If I could not pop the valve cover off I would walk away. And to call that an invasive procedure is horse shi#t. It take 15 minutes to take off have a look and put it back on.
You want to get invasive tell him you also want the pan dropped, the egr cooler outlet disconnected and the system pressure tested to 20psi overnight. Jack up the rears and pull the axle shafts for a bearing inspection, pull the inspection plate off the flywheel housing for a clutch inspection and a dyno for blowby measurements. That’s a good start I’m buying a used truck. Any reputable dealer will allow you to take it to a shop of your choice for any inspections on your dime. If they won’t then walk away as they’re cheats and crooks.
As far as an oil sample I have seen shops use a new 1/8 inch nylon tube that they feed down the dipstick tube to pull a sample without draining the oil which has to be done taking it from the drain plug.
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - Blake - 02-04-2018
At a minimum have them print out the full maintenance report on that vehicle to show what has and hasn't been done. That way you can see if it's had emissions issues and if they've even done proper services.
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - Rawze - 02-04-2018
(02-03-2018 )Nilao Wrote: If I could not pop the valve cover off I would walk away. And to call that an invasive procedure is horse shi#t. It take 15 minutes to take off have a look and put it back on.
You want to get invasive tell him you also want the pan dropped, the egr cooler outlet disconnected and the system pressure tested to 20psi overnight. Jack up the rears and pull the axle shafts for a bearing inspection, pull the inspection plate off the flywheel housing for a clutch inspection and a dyno for blowby measurements. That’s a good start I’m buying a used truck. Any reputable dealer will allow you to take it to a shop of your choice for any inspections on your dime. If they won’t then walk away as they’re cheats and crooks.
As far as an oil sample I have seen shops use a new 1/8 inch nylon tube that they feed down the dipstick tube to pull a sample without draining the oil which has to be done taking it from the drain plug.
That sounds like what I would do at the very least on an old truck with high mileage. - Know what you got, don't gamble or guess at it. If someone is selling that many trucks, then they are bound by law to not deceive you as a dealership. IF they are selling the truck "as is" with the pretense of "good operational condition/road ready", FIRST, make sure it clearly states it in the bill of sale for the thing. Next, make them prove those things (good cams, no excess blo-by for its age, egr cooler/powersteering/turbo/tranny/rears good, no coolant intrusion, rear bearings/suspension/tie-rods ok, etc) either before or during the sale, and if they don't want to -- You have the right to prove/inspect all those things and opt-out of the deal within a time frame. That or I would have gone somewhere else to do business. - If I am going to buy a truck with no ability to see if it is in bad shape or not, then I am heading to the nearest local truck auction where I can buy one on the cheap and fix on it myself instead.
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - Ragindirt - 02-04-2018
Serv,
Don't want to make this a sale post, so I will keep it simple.
I was headed to hagg yesterday but had sand can axle issues. Burned up my clock driving back home and doing repairs. Had to regen truck again which is why I was headed 1200 miles east ( short of it I am in the lazy boy with fluid on my knee ).
Bad move, bad angle, coming up on a knee replacement soon.
So in another trend, guy was headed to hagg, and another member asked if it was worth spending money on an 07 if an inframe was needed. I personally think I would have done major work on my truck when I got there if it was more then just egr related. More to the trend but you can read it.
My deal is:
I Thought about upgrading but after spending time talking with members and some locals; hell I would not as an O/O, purchase a newer truck than my 2010 with an 871.
I pull heavy with the pneumatic trailer and always figured I would drop a 13 in but with no issues on 10 except high/low selector needed cleaning, I opted out of the cost of 13. Better in the end if I went back into pulling tanker or staying away from permitted pneumatic loads. 4 out 5 times I get red lighted and have to go in and show permit. Gets old on same scale house.
Been talking to a member on tankers and companies he pulls for, but its just based to far away. Could pull milk again but rate sucks vs.the insurance needed.
Story ends, she is home, and Monday I pull tags. I Said it before now but this time I have pulled the trigger. Better for me at this point in time to pull a wagon for a local guy in his rig, than for me to drive mine. All my connections with local shop usage have flown the coup and the ones that haven't have merged with others have made the freedom of shop time non-existent f or the single O/O.
Serv, I will make you a hell of a deal on a truck. I'll even let you pull shi#t off and inspect it. Bolts are easy to remove from me doing it last week before south east trip I had planned.
Or any others here I can part her out.
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - serv - 03-16-2018
Thanks for the solid advice Nilao, Blake and Rawze. Thanks for the offer, ragindirt!
Sorry for the delay guys. I’ve looked at a ton of trucks since looking at the ones I linked above. I ended up finding a 2011 prostar in Dothan, AL at a Penske dealer. 132k original miles. 871 ISX. Penske is giving me 15 days (from the time it leaves their lot) for me to find any major problems with it. Penske is ok with repairing any of the above items that Nilao and Rawze mentioned above. In fact, they have been working on the truck for the last few weeks to make sure it will pass dot and the truck is functioning correctly. Communication with Penske has been good so far. The only thing that I don’t like about Penske is their extended oil changes. They are at 45k miles on these trucks/engines. The one I bought had a few extra oil changes because they change the oil every (I think she said) 6 months if the mileage doesn’t hit 45k first.
Now the big catch here with the truck I bought is it’s a single axle. But It’s headed straight to Houston truck rigging inc. to get stretched and converted to tandem axle. I found a good low mile Hendrickson air ride setup off of an intl 9400. Houston truck rigging is going to add to the rear of the prostar frame and incorporate an inner frame sleeve as well if I understood him correctly. I need 145” from rear of cab to center of rear axles for a near future logging grapple so I see this as killing two birds with one stone.
So as soon as the truck arrives to Houston, my mechanic and I plan to meet the truck there and check as many of these things as possible. I hope all this works out as there are very few 871 ISX trucks left. Plenty of 2250’s. I checked a few 2250’s on quickserve and there was no records showing fuel pump work or upgrading of the ceramic plungers. Nobody knew anything about any injection pump related campaigns. So a single axle was the only way for me to get a low mile 871.
Thanks again for taking to time to type up the great advice above. I will be applying it in a few days when I go meet the truck in Houston.
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - serv - 06-10-2018
Wow, it’s been a long couple of months. I met the truck in Houston a month ago. We tore into it for a week. First things we removed were valve cover and oil pan/pump. I made a list of around 11 issues then we put the truck back together and sent it to a Houston Penske shop. It took them about a month to fix those issues. After getting the truck out of the Penske shop in Houston, I delivered it to Houston truck rigging and they converted her to tandem axle and stretched her the proper length to fit a grapple crane. I drove her five hours home yesterday from Houston. Will be running the overhead later this evening. I’ll post some pics of the progress as soon as I figure out an easier way to do it. Here’s a before pic
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - serv - 06-10-2018
Most of you guys probably know this but I found that the design of this oil pan holds A substantial amount of oil when you drain the oil from the engine for an oil change. What are people doing to get all the oil out when changing oil?
RE: Help choosing an 871 truck - pearce trucking - 06-10-2018
It just stays in the pan. It's about 1-1.5 gallons