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+--- Thread: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. (/showthread.php?tid=3409)
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Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - TonyMathis - 08-14-2018
I have a 2007 CM870 that blew an injector tip. While diagnosing the problem I ran the engine with the valve cover off. In about a minute oil pooled up and spilled about a gallon over the rear of the head which explains the leak that 2 new gaskets have failed to stop. Surely those rubber valve cover gaskets are designed for splash sealing not immersion. The engine has less than 100k on an out of frame overhaul and this small leak at the rear of the valve cover is the only it has.
My question is are the head gaskets made with a restriction to slow drainage and if so can I enlarge the opening (in the gasket) without causing a lack of lubrication up top?
Also I checked the turbo and it had compressor wheel damage and pressure tested the cylinder with shop air and heard no valve leakage. The injector tip broke off while the engine was at idle building up air after sitting the weekend and only ran about 5 minutes until it was shut down by the driver. There was an intermittent knocking that went away after the driver heard what he described as a machine gun sound (turbo probably). During diagnoses no compression was visible in coolant tank.
I have 35 years experience with diesels but very little with the ISX so I don't know what to expect for cylinder damage from a tip. I'm going to scope it tomorrow but would welcome opinions from those with more ISX experience.
RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - Signature620 - 08-15-2018
I wonder if someone has dropped something in the oil drain casting at the rear intake side corner. Oil drains from the head in that corner and through a hole in the front injector cam plate (front intake side corner).
RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - Rawze - 08-15-2018
Signature620 is correct. There are 2 fairly large drains so that oil does not pool up in the head.
Those openings/drains are fairly large so something does not sound right.
You say it was recently re-manned,... did someone make a mistake with the head gasket? did they block them on purpose like a complete fool? -- did they forget a rag stuffed into them?
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RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - TonyMathis - 08-15-2018
I don't think a rag or anything else was left in it during the rebuild. I did have to replace a cam shortly after the rebuild (don't buy cheap cams) and there was quite a lot of metal I had to clean up. I did stuff shop towels in all the opening to keep metal fragments from dropping into the pan so I might have left one in the back far corner. I'll check it if I ever get away from this damned desk. To be honest I thought the drains were quite a bit smaller than they are so it must be something like that.
I have an additional question today. This engine takes 4088665 injectors I can get a new set of 4088662 injectors for the same price as a single 4088665. The injectors are physically identical but the 4088665 that my truck uses are rated 435HP while the 4088662 my fiend has are rated 450HP. In fact some online seller use the numbers interchangeably. Does anyone know of a reason I can't or shouldn't use them?
RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - TonyMathis - 08-15-2018
Update! After checking 4088662 on quickserve it appears the number my friend gave me for was an injector tip. I'll have to wait until he brings them to see exactly what he's got.
RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - Rawze - 08-15-2018
(08-15-2018 )TonyMathis Wrote: ...
some online seller use the numbers
...
ONLY A COMPLETE FOOL WOULD USE CRAP OFF THE INTERNET AS PART OF THE CRITICAL ENGINE COMPONENTS!!!!!! -- GO OEM ONLY ON THE INJECTORS!!!
All it takes is an injector tip to fail and you could be looking at a window in the block!. -- I don't know WHY anyone would want to take a stupid risk like that on a $36,000 engine just to try to save a few bucks.
Lastly, there is a LOT of injectors out there being sold online, even genuine injectors -- simply because they are defective in some way or are part of a previous recall. I would not trust ANY of them!.
RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - TonyMathis - 08-21-2018
Quote:ONLY A COMPLETE FOOL WOULD USE CRAP OFF THE INTERNET AS PART OF THE CRITICAL ENGINE COMPONENTS!!!!!! -- GO OEM ONLY ON THE INJECTORS!!!
Typing a part number into google rather than opening quickserve doesn't constitute buying anything. It does bring up online parts sellers and can be a source of interchange information not available from other sources. Only a fool jumps to unfounded conclusions!
Quote:All it takes is an injector tip to fail and you could be looking at a window in the block!. -- I don't know WHY anyone would want to take a stupid risk like that on a $36,000 engine just to try to save a few bucks.
Which can happen with a brand new injector from Cummins.
Quote:Lastly, there is a LOT of injectors out there being sold online, even genuine injectors -- simply because they are defective in some way or are part of a previous recall. I would not trust ANY of them!.
There isn't any magic pixie dust sprinkled on Cummins Recon parts that make them inherently superior to other rebuilders. The quality of the part is entirely dependent on the quality of the work done by the technician. My father having worked for Cummins 40 years in their pump and injector rebuild room, as a shop supervisor and a field tech who was regularly flown to foreign tourist destinations to work on yatchs owned by billionaires I'll trust his opinion of reman parts. Established rebuilders with good reputations and warranty policies are just as dependable as Cummins recon parts. Sure a union tech at a factory facility MIGHT toss anything that isn't perfect but they might also not give two shits knowing there isn't a lot that can be done to fire him. Good luck getting Cummins to cover additional damage caused by a failed part if it wasn't installed at their facility.
As for after market parts some are good some aren't. Some come from the very same factories that Cummins contracted to make Genuine Cummins parts. For example Cummins parts made in Brazil come from the very same factory that manufactured blocks, head and rods for Cummins for 20 years. Same factory. Same workers. Same specs. Slapping Genuine Cummins on the side of the box doesn't improve the part.
{**Content removed by protection bot** - trolling.} - if you had the equipment and knowledge to rebuild parts that you now buy from Cummins you would do it and say they were just as good a Cummins rebuilt. Just like you do with engine rebuilds.
You say only a fool would buy crap off the internet. Considering your response to a simple question I would say only a fool would get advise from a guy on the internet.
RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - Nostalgic - 08-21-2018
I thanked both Rawze's post, and your reply. Little conflicting, but both sides have merit, depending on what lens you look through.
From a shop owner standpoint, my approach would be a lot different. Who is going to honor warranty, and who is going to reimburse labor. From an individual who doesn't have an unlimited budget, I'm willing to "risk" a few unprovens for $15k savings. In fact, I've bought a lot of parts (with no warranty) off of ebay.
Rawze mentioned criticals, and I tend to sway towards his camp. Rods were available new aftermarket or reman from cummins, and despite the fact that I have low opinion on cummins quality control (or any reman for that matter - ask me how much I despise A1-Cardone), it was less risk to me than buying a rod that I could not verify any feedback on. Now, that said, I have NO issues with using IPD bearings with them at a savings of close to 65%.
It's a big drawback in the heavy industry. For auto, I can just call my vendor and ask the rate of returns on x vs y brand part, but in this industry, for some reason, vendors seem to want to protect the image of both x AND y brand, and will sing praises for both. Doesn't make sense lol.
Injectors would be another issue. Unless I have a solid history with a reman shop (which I do not), there's no way I would buy a set of injectors off of ebay. The risk vs reward is not in my favor. Does it mean I sing praises on Cummins reman injectors? Nope, but at least I feel that I have better odds.
RE: Oil pooling in top of cylinder head. - TonyMathis - 08-21-2018
We have two pump and injector rebuilders in my area. Both are staffed by men who
{**Content removed by protection bot** - suspected advertising.}
Our turbo rebuilder {**Content removed by protection bot** - suspected advertising.}
You're absolutely right about owning a shop and using Genuine Cummins parts and if you're honest you'll admit a lot of it has to do with the ignorance of the customer who will blame any problem on using aftermarket parts. Experienced mechanics shouldn't exhibit the same ignorance.
Frankly I'm sick of this ISX. The casting are soft compared to other engines including other Cummins. Parts are outrageous in large part due to distrust of aftermarket suppliers. Reliability is suspect. The EGR system is a joke considering carbon clogging of the head is damn near routine maintenance. And above all the lubrication system is inadequate and prone to cause to early failure. My Detroits and Cats are far superior engines in economy, reliability and cost of repair.
The one thing Cummins had for years over the other manufacturers was cost of ownership. They beat Cat in repair cost and Detroit on fuel economy and reliability neither of which is true now. They are worse than both. I regret the day I gave the ISX a chance and advise anyone considering what engine to have in a truck to go with a Detroit.