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rebuild vs swap decisions - Printable Version

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RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - Ironsled - 08-18-2019

(08-15-2019 )Waterloo Wrote:  I will second what Rawze said, Mr Hagg has rebuilding an ISX down to a science. The truck is brought in the shop, hood removed, then front structure removed. Then the tear down starts, it is really something to watch. Every component's nuts and bolts are put in individual zip loc bags, labeled and placed on a very tall bakers shelf. That is your motor, no intermingling of parts. And yes, all parts are cleaned.

The assembly, all of the parts needed to do a proper in frame are in a plastic container that comes from the parts room. He has the 871, 2250 and 2350 parts sets. All of the gaskets, the little o rings, everything is in there and used.

The slick lube for the bearings, it is there, I have seen the guys rolling in the bearings, they use it liberally. The pre lube of the motor, I borrowed the pump, it works. And the most important part, the setting of the liners. That is done too, no skipping that step.

Mr Hagg get's in there too, both front covers are removed, front gear train, front main seal, etc. Most shops only remove the top cover to remove the cam(s) unless you specify replacing the front main seal.

The best thing, is that they have done so many of these rebuilds, successfully, that they are quick. Not fast and sloppy, but efficiently quick to disassemble and reassemble. No corners are cut, and when other little things pop up, he is quick to address them, like a component that is soon too fail that needs to be addressed. When he says something is bad, it is, he is not the kind of guy to play games with a man's livelihood and he does not want to see you back with issues or broke down on the side of the road. I have heard these conversations and seen the parts. If he says it's bad, it is bad. He has no time for games, shop is way to busy for that nonsense.

When you pull up to the shop, it is nothing to see a half a dozen or more crates sitting in one of the bays or in the lot, those are in frame kits and heads, and they are stacked like cord wood on some days. I believe he is the number one or two ISX in frame shop in the country, and #1 in Georgia. That is one busy little shop.

Mr Hagg has a helluva a system down, he and Rawze worked together in the beginning to do these motors properly, both men have years of knowledge and experience, and they went about ensuring that when an ISX is rebuilt, it is rebuilt to a higher standard than even Cummins adheres too. These two men put their heads together to find a better way, and boy has Mr Hagg run with it and has it down to a science. I would trust no other shop to do an in frame on my motor.

There is a back story here too... Rawze, when he fired up Rawze.com, started hearing the horror stories of shops skipping crucial steps when rebuilding these ISX motors. I was one of those victims. He set out to find a local shop in his area that would work with him and rebuild these ISX motors to a higher standard that he could endorse and say this is the shop you need to take your truck too. That is when he met Mr Hagg... Rawze had the customers, he just needed somewhere to send them. Mr Hagg grabbed this bull by the horns and ran with it. and don't get me wrong here, Mr Hagg knows how to rebuild an ISX, Rawze's involvement was to ensure the steps were being followed so that these motors would not require a second in frame a year or two down the road. This was a good marriage in my book, both men are passionate about doing the job properly, or don't do it at all. I am damn proud to have met both men. They are both responsible for keeping many a man up and running and in business that would have failed due to mechanical issues. I am one of those guys.

I appericate you taking the time to give me more confidences in the decision I have made. now is time to get all my ducks in a row to insure the I have it all worked out on my end . piss poor preparation=piss poor performance .Thanks bud


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - Ironsled - 08-18-2019

I have a couple thoughts that i have looked into a little bit but lets have some opinions about the following
my fan clutch is out from what i asume using it all the time to get back home recently and being everything will be tore down it would be ovb the time to replace it but i have been wondering
with all the new engergy saving types of parts coming up anybody have any thoughts pros & cons on
electric engine fan ??
fuel savings from it?
ovb dual would be safer to insure if one fails for what ever reason theres still one working .
any good quality kits on the market any one has seen or have experience with?

I also have steer air ride and the constant change in leveling I know screws with some things and have talked with a few others about how my drive line angles are changed and you can feel the differance in the drive ablity in the truck when it gets out of wack
but i also wonder if it is a common issue with the FLEX AIR SUSPENSION on Peterbilts

so is there any experience comments to the benefit over strait leaf spring type .its almost a hassle and they are expensive set up to have done and being I already have it i think i would replace the leafs to bring the quality of the ride and tire where back up cause I am having issues with steer wear CUPPING alot
I know bearings have a roll in that and shocks and that is a for sure replacement parts Im going to be changing

I have some pics i will include but I think im going to start a thread in the in the daily blog going forward with progresses and all .


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - SquareOne - 08-18-2019

Just as a little light at into your tunnel IronSled.... a properly tuned, maintained, and operated 2350 will be a good money maker.

Mine with 3.55s in the rear has ranged from 8.989 - 9.289 mpg since the beginning of this IFTA quarter. I run a 60 loaded and 40 empty, but when loaded I am 90% above 77k. Not sure the terrain or load you encounter, but a proper cm2350 equation (yourself included) will net you good mpg earnings which will transfer to money in the bank.


I’m constantly under the hood doing random checks and maintenance, but so far it has been a very profitable engine with the help and Insite of Rawze and the members of this forum.


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - Ironsled - 08-18-2019

(08-18-2019 )SquareOne Wrote:  Just as a little light at into your tunnel IronSled.... a properly tuned, maintained, and operated 2350 will be a good money maker.

Mine with 3.55s in the rear has ranged from 8.989 - 9.289 mpg since the beginning of this IFTA quarter. I run a 60 loaded and 40 empty, but when loaded I am 90% above 77k. Not sure the terrain or load you encounter, but a proper cm2350 equation (yourself included) will net you good mpg earnings which will transfer to money in the bank.


I’m constantly under the hood doing random checks and maintenance, but so far it has been a very profitable engine with the help and Insite of Rawze and the members of this forum.

good data thanks for the info !


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - Rawze - 09-09-2019

Ironsled is over at Mr. hags. I got a chance to go over there and lend a hand in evaluation of his engine.

When he arrived, it ran, but sounded like it was missing badly on one cylinder, similar to dropped valve sound. After a bit though, it started sounding like it was running on only couple 3 cylinders and skipping badly. -- no smoke. -- Could also tell turbo was ramped way up.

Turbo arm was definatetly stuck in a high position. Failed all tests with my turbo test box and indicated it was locked up, would not move properly.

We relieved pressure from the exhaust behind egr cooler and between turbo / manifold. Also opened up the intake manifold so engine could breathe to see if it would run normally.

(cover off, while running) Valves looked all like they were operating correctly, no engine brake solenoids were sticky,.. everything looked normal when idling on top end... yet it was still laboring heavily on only a couple cylinders and would hardly run at all.

-- Next day:

I used his laptop to look at codes,.. engine was failing injector 1,3, and 5. It had shut them off. That explains the laboring and poor run condition.

Was just looking at top of valves and wiggled the wiring harness, seemed odd that it was 1,3,5 and not some other combination... went to unlock the twist-lock on the injector harness where it goes into the head to inspect the pins and the whole plug just fell into my hand. -- It obviously was not plugged in properly, and obviously was not locked in place. Looks like it has been this way for a while too when looking at the dirt and dust on it.

Plugged it in and the engine sounded really good, but still had that puff puff on one cylinder sound. it also fails a rail leak test badly.

took off the manifold completely to see what cylinder(s) were acting up, possibly not firing, or valve issues, and cranked it up. <- engine ran really well actually. No more popping sound, no more puff puff, ran very well considering all other things. no smoking, no smoke, etc.

-- Some investigation reveals that he had a block plate installed, and it had broken and gotten sucked into the exhaust manifold between cylinder 1 and 2. Cylinder 1 could not breathe properly with the manifold in place. Some exhaust was getting past it but not much.

- So far, the turbo needs to be re-built. - It is at YTS for that, and I think Hag is going to run the overhead valve adjustments and test the engine for why the rail will not hold pressure.

After a new turbo, some proper fixes for his manifold, and re-flashing his ecm with a good program (engine has a bad de-mandate program in it)... i think it will be fine. No signs that it needs an inframe at all so far if you ask me... but it will be checked thoroughly just in case.

I can say this.. This guy is a hard worker, and is gung-ho towards doing his own work. sometimes I think it gets him in a bit of trouble though, some things (like rebuilding the guts of a VGT turbo) should be left to someone who can do a proper job who has proper equipment. - I think he is realizing this now, and that is great.

Have enjoyed hanging out with this guy, The beer is flowing...LOL


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - Waterloo - 09-09-2019

WOW! That is fantastic, hopefully an easy fix compared to an entire in frame. How many shops would have went the extra mile to investigate and figure out the programming, find the broken plate, repaired the turbo, etc.? I can think of only one other, and those two guys are in Canada. I think I can safely say this was worth the trip for Ironsled.


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - hhow55 - 09-09-2019

Another great story, feeling really good for this man


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - Ironsled - 09-10-2019

THANKS GUYS
It has been a great experince being here and getting the chance to take all of it in . I have enjoyed every conversation I have had while being here and learning all I can .

Recap for today
leak down test on the fuel rail and injectors and found that injector #1 was leaking down bad. so thats the first on the list to change , along with a few other things that I would like to get done here and well since im here why not .

Injector #1------Replace
idler pully -------Replace
Belt tensioner--Replace X2
both belts-------Replace
rods and mains-Replace
oil pump--------Replace
Tie rod ends----Replace ( broiught them with me )
Front motor mounts--Replaved (brought)
egr Cooler (due to leak)
coolant hoses---x2

and when all that has been done and a and we got a good program back in it we will be ready to take that first ride to clear water MN to get that new trailer and let me tell ya after all the time down I am ready to roll like never before

BTW rawze's cooking and hospitalitghy is top Notch.


RE: rebuild vs swap decisions - SquareOne - 09-10-2019

Congrats man! Hopefully it all works well. Sounds like you're on the right path. Definitely in the right hands! Although they may not have the lifespan as many of the other "Red" engine designs, that 2350 should net you some decent gains once all the ghosts have been exorcised!

Keep us posted...