ISX exhaust valves leaking oil

[BlizzardGuy]

A customer I work with purchased a "OEM reman, Signature CM570" from a 3rd party "surplus" engine reseller. Long story short... They sent a QSX15 engine painted red, and changed a few parts so it was suitable to be mounted in a truck.
Throughout this whole process I saw nothing but red flags and recommended against it, but he insisted on using this engine.

This doubtfully has anything to do with the subject of this thread anyways --- just backstory.

So I ended up converting the rest of the incompatible parts over (ECM, harness, fuel system, tune, etc) Got it running and driving the truck just fine
Not even 200 hours runtime later, engine oil is seeping past the exhaust manifold gaskets and turbo mounting gasket
Of course the engine reseller wants nothing to do with providing any warranty, so I was tasked with investigating.
Pulled the turbo & manifold and -- as expected -- engine oil running down the exhaust valves, 4 out of 6 ports soaked
Checked the valve seals, they are the latest revision (sit underneath the valve spring) and appear in OK shape.
The owner of the unit requested to just replace the valve seals and clean the oil residue and see what happens. I did just that - reassembled and we were good for another few dozen hours.
Same issue is still present

I've seen plenty of ISX heads with this problem, but always just expected it to be caused by valve seals.
The internals of this particular engine appeared to be actually new and OEM. As skeptical as I was, I don't actually think the builder of this engine neglected to replace what was needed properly

****
Since this time, the head was removed and sent for inspection and magnaflux by a local diesel engine shop. They claimed they could not find any cracks or issues with the valves, guides.
They replaced the seals again, sent it back.
I wasn't satisfied with this result, but the owner of the truck went ahead with installing the head and crossing fingers

Guess what.
Problem still there, and in fact, is worse than ever before

Out of ideas!

[tree98]

You need a new genuine cummins head straight from the dealer. Not reworked, rebuilt, magnafucked junk.........who the hell knows what it is exactly or what was done to it!!

[Rawze]

Well.. since a brand new, OEM head and properly built/assembled engine w proper programming and all OEM parts according to its ser# .. they are NOT known for this issue, usually not until they get like 600k+ miles or more on them ... and even then, some valve guide seals will almost always clear it up ...

just some thoughts...

Mostly sounds like ... non-oem, maybe chineesuim, or 'repaired' heads or soemthing . Something is fishy as he#ll about it. Why do people do such stupid s$it like that when they have to rely on it for their living is beyond me. Someone got exactly the garbage that they paid for!.

bad and incorrect programming can also contributing to wet stacking, impingement, etc. and damaging the engine too.

Also, is there any excessive crank case pressure buildup? ... any excessive blo-by? - is the crank case even ventilated properly?. CC presuure buildup will not typically cause valve seals to leak, but might if the holes have excessive clearances, and the pressures are high enough. Excessive cc fumes pressure buildup will also damage the overhead cams, and the turbocharger too.

so .. in the end.. what you are describing is a complete clusterf$uck!>.. and the truck owner + repair shop that installed it got exactly what they deserved for even considering it!.

Tell them to go buy a proper certified OEM long block from cummins (or a certified stealers$hit) at this point. One WITH A 2-YEAR FULL WARRANTY ... THE ONE THAT BELONGS IN THE TRUCK ACCORDING TO THE VIN#!!>.. and rip out that trash they purchased.. demand their moneys back.

Sad part is now that someone took the engine apart like a dumb s$it .. they now cannot SUE THE F4$UCK-STICK OUT OF THE AFTER-GARBAGE ENGINE SELLER like they should have to begin with!.

[PolishHammer]

How's the crank case vent and filter ? Is there lots of blow by with engine running and oil cap off ?

[Rawze]

(01-11-2024 )PolishHammer Wrote:  How's the crank case vent and filter ? Is there lots of blow by with engine running and oil cap off ?

lol .. you said this one same time I did, as I was finishing up the post above.

[Rawze]

(01-11-2024 )BlizzardGuy Wrote:  A customer I work with purchased a "OEM reman, Signature CM570" from a 3rd party "surplus" engine reseller. Long story short... They sent a QSX15 engine painted red, and changed a few parts so it was suitable to be mounted in a truck
....

Repair shops that want a decent reputation also need to learn real fast that when people want to do half-arssed garbage .. in your repair shop ... YOU NEED TO SIMPLY TELL THEM NO AND RUN THEM OFF!. It only results in headaches for the shop and costs everyone a lot of drama, headaches, moneys and possible lawsuits!. In the eyes of most people ... allowing others stupidity and their stupid ideas to happen in your shop only reflects negatively on your shops reputation in the end, making the repair shop look just as bad for even attempting it.

[BlizzardGuy]

Pretty much what I expected!
The whole job was a pretty slippery sh$t slope to begin with
Is there an obvious way to tell an aftermarket head from an OEM one?

Also the questions regarding crankcase pressure -- this crankcase is vented straight to atmosphere and it doesn't seem to have an abnormal amount of blowby.
I distinctly remember having one look at that engine when it was still bolted to the shipping crate and telling the customer "Now's your chance to send that back and get a proper engine". .. .. The regrets he must feel now for trying to save a buck

Nonetheless, I like the guy, and the only option on the table is a complete long block from Cummins with WARRANTY!!

[Rawze]

(01-11-2024 )BlizzardGuy Wrote:  Pretty much what I expected!
The whole job was a pretty slippery sh$t slope to begin with
Is there an obvious way to tell an aftermarket head from an OEM one?

...

- This thread reminds me of someone coming to my house one time about 5 years ago. They had just had a rebuild done. Paperwork said it was a new OEM head and all oem parts were on the bills. Engine was loosing compression on 2 cylinders / running rough .. valves were leaky. When we looked at the head itself, the date stamped into it was 5+ years OLDER THAN THE ENGINE AND TRUCK.

Clearly it had also been re-worked when looking at it closely, though it was hard to tell at first. it was obviously not new at all, but something quite old in fact. - H#ell, it was also not even the head that came off of the engine to begin with. It was some swapped out crap.

The guy called them up and confronted the shop and they said claimed that they bought them from yet another local local shop in town (non-oem) because they could get cheaper prices on what they said were OEM parts. - Turns out with some more digging, it was an old head from a local junk yard that this place was cleaning up (and machining a bit) and selling them as new OEM.

Truck owner also found out that not even the overhaul kit was oem either, once the bad head came off it and he saw after-garbage pistons in it.

I think he ended up getting a bunch of moneys back towards having it fixed properly again after some threats and getting some lawyers involved.


.. and here is another one from 3 years ago... same thing. Head was replaced at some point on this totally neglected and abused truck, ... and was older than the engine itself: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...4#pid53024


Moral of the story.. trust no one and double-tripple check everything to find out exactly what you got.


What does it say on the back corner of the head intake side?.

Part#, RX or PX, date or manufacturer, etc.etc.
picture: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid64885