Belly Dumps

[tree98]

If you want the benefits that come with knowing about and using this forum, you need to find something with a Cummins. Not to mention insite and quickserve.

[redbeard]

I’m in California and I never had understood how the super 10’s get away with not adhering to the bridge law for weight. If it was “legal” the Cement mixers would be doing it instead of raising and lowering there “trailer” in order to increase there wheelbase.
The super 10 is just an extra axle added with a lift device, usually in front of the group of drives.
Strong arm is a “trailer “ that raises and loweres, adding a axle and extending wheelbase when loaded

[imalumberjack]

(01-01-2019 )redbeard Wrote:  I’m in California and I never had understood how the super 10’s get away with not adhering to the bridge law for weight. If it was “legal” the Cement mixers would be doing it instead of raising and lowering there “trailer” in order to increase there wheelbase.
The super 10 is just an extra axle added with a lift device, usually in front of the group of drives.
Strong arm is a “trailer “ that raises and loweres, adding a axle and extending wheelbase when loaded

so the super 10 axle in front of drives I thought they only get an extra 1000-2000 pounds? about what the axle weighs :-) super tag has the tag axle in back (not strong arm) they are carrying about the same as what I do in a end dump about 18-19 tons there were heards of them this year, I think California changed its bridge law. Strong arms there are a few but the way the axle folds up it gets in the way of loading and usually they do not have the wide long bed its just a high side ten wheeler so a little unstable.

[arch_stanton]

Your description of super 10 and super tag is correct the strong arm type of truck is usually referred to as a booster. For California the amount you can haul works out this way based on wheel base. If you start with a 225in wheel base 10 wheel truck with a 15 foot box, it will actually have a
front Axel to last Axel measurement of 252in and you can legal 51,500lb thats 34,000 on drive and 17,500 on your steer Axel. The problem is you can't get the 17,500 on the front Axel and keep the drives at 34,000, but if you add a drop Axel in front of the drives you are now allowed 56,000 for the same wheel base and now you can have 42,500 on the drives tridum for a 8,500lb increase in GVW and it helps get the extra weight on the front Axel,in this example you are only allowed 13,500 on the front Axel but in practice I end up with about 41,000 on the rears and 15,000 on the front. For every 1 foot of increase in wheel base you get a 500lb increase in GVW but every 3rd foot you get an extra 1000lb, in this example you have to add 2 feet to get to 57,500 GVW or you could put your drop Axel behind the drive Axel to get the 2 extra feet but have the same turning radius when the Axel is raised. I think the super tags run about a 312in wheel base to get a 59,500 GVW so my truck can legal 16 ton and a super tag can do about 19 ton, most super tags are built as light as posable to haul tonnage small motor, thin box, etc mine are built heavy to haul anything and reduce breakage over time and pull a pup trailer at 80,000 GVW in a hilly area. The booster adds about 12 feet and a 17 foot box puts you at 420in wheel base with a GVW of 65,500 the payload is now about 23 tons but because of the difficulty of getting it loaded right I'm told the CHP has reduced the max payload to about 21 tons, A mixer uses about the same wheel base but because wet concrete in a drum puts the weight in the same spot every time they can control the weight on the axels much better.

[arch_stanton]

(01-01-2019 )imalumberjack Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 )arch_stanton Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 )Claw Wrote:  I haven't really worked on much just the normal pop a fuse out chase light small stuff like that but i'm definitely going to be learning. I have a friend that is a diesel mechanic so i'm going to learn as much as possible from him in order to save some money. I do have a broker that will be charging me 9 percent to use his trailers and my dad has known since high school so i'm hoping that will help get me a little higher on the list lol. Do the super tens get as slow as the bottom dumps iv'e hear it a little easier to find work for them since they get in to tighter places than doubles.

I think the going rate for trailer rental through a broker is 25% so 9% would be great. The great thing about super 10's is there are one and 2 truck jobs you don't have to be part of a major job to get work and the tighter jobs can not be done with bottoms, pup,s or end dumps. The main thing that will keep your truck busy is what is your brokers main focus and how aggressive they are within your area and the market can change and leave you S.O.L. In San Diego the go to dump site for fill dirt for years was the landfill, they did not take bottom dumps or end dumps so I had a big cost advantage over the super 10's, 10 wheels, and bottom dumps, but about 2 years ago they changed the rules to no pup trailers, now super 10's due all the work so my pup trailers are sitting way more, but things can change at any time and pups become more competitive again its good to be flexible. The new T880 has the cummins X15,18 speed auto shift, 46k rears on ADZ air ride.

Super 10? is that what I am calling super tag? tag axle on back, oversized bed? empty at 23 thou and carry 65,000? we are getting whole fleets of them around here and they beat out an end dump. Being a logger I always hate giving up the adaptability of a tractor, I could haul logs, chips, rock, dirt, lowboy or even send it over the road if needed.

The problem around hear is the end dump does not haul as much as a double bottom or a pup the end dump is usually low sided to haul big rock and can not get the yardage, when I'm loading with a 966 I can get 4 buckets in a double bottom or pup but the end dump usually only can take 3 buckets and if its is possible to get the 4th bucket it takes more time to get it right. then they take longer to dump and need more room and a more level and better compaction so they don't tip over. As a grading contractor I don't want end dumps on my job if I have the choice, When hauling asphalt or concrete demo my pups haul more and are faster to load and dump. my solution to your problem to keep a fifth wheel truck working was to custom build a dump box with the fifth under at all times and the box is removable or can be reinstalled in 5 minutes without getting your hands dirty, it works good but was not cheap or easy to design and build. The other solution I have see is to run double bottoms with a 3 Axel tractor just need the 5th wheel to slide way back.

[Claw]

I have been thinking about getting a 3 axle truck to have the option of doing something else. Money wise do you think it would make sense though? Everyone around here uses 2 axles to maximize the the amount of weight. I'm kind of curious how much money one would loose using a 3 axle instead of a 2 axle.

[arch_stanton]

claw
if your hauling fill dirt and not crossing a scale it won't matter unless the commercial guy sets up scales around the job site, around hear they don't, they usually do the inspections when they are empty.
In San Diego Burns and Sons has been running 3 Axel tractors pulling double bottoms for decades. They use there end dump tractors to do both jobs and I have seen a few of there sub haulers do it also.

[Claw]

(01-02-2019 )arch_stanton Wrote:  claw
if your hauling fill dirt and not crossing a scale it won't matter unless the commercial guy sets up scales around the job site, around hear they don't, they usually do the inspections when they are empty.
In San Diego Burns and Sons has been running 3 Axel tractors pulling double bottoms for decades. They use there end dump tractors to do both jobs and I have seen a few of there sub haulers do it also.

That's good to know. What would be the difference if was I hauling base also?

[arch_stanton]

(01-02-2019 )Claw Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 )arch_stanton Wrote:  claw
if your hauling fill dirt and not crossing a scale it won't matter unless the commercial guy sets up scales around the job site, around hear they don't, they usually do the inspections when they are empty.
In San Diego Burns and Sons has been running 3 Axel tractors pulling double bottoms for decades. They use there end dump tractors to do both jobs and I have seen a few of there sub haulers do it also.

That's good to know. What would be the difference if was I hauling base also?

Truck is going to way about 2000 lbs more but it is easier to find a heavy duty 3 Axel than heavy duty 2 Axel , if your going to build a new 2 Axel bottom dump they usually use a 23,000 rear end or the back Axel of a 46,000 tandem and you will want a locker that you would find in a heavy haul truck, but now I'm steering you toward an expensive,heavy, tough truck but I have found better to buy overkill than try to replace all the weak links later you will never have the time, and with this kind of truck haul anything.