CM2350 Derate-Low DEF

[prejah72]

Hello All,
Newbie here..

I have a cm2350 Cummins that has entered the dreaded 5mph derate cycle.

I am planning on de-mandating the truck myself {at some point}.

In the meantime , I have to work to make money so I have resorted to re-calibrating every 170-200 miles to keep the truck going whilst I familiarize myself with the Milk Money Process.

These are the pretty consistent stages of derate after every re-cal with Insite:

a. Truck enters 25% derate after 30 miles..
b. Truck enters 40% derate after 170 miles
c. Full 5mph derate if I idle for 5 mins or so or stop the engine.

See attached picture.

{part of post removed by rawze}.

[Rawze]

What are the exact fault codes that you are getting in Insite?.

Is a bad DEF sensor?.. or is it actually low on DEF fluid??.

It is also not healthy just to keep re-flashing the ecm over and over. They do have a limited number of times they can be flashed, before wearing out the flash memory in them (depends on how old ecm is too)... albiet, it is quite a high number.

I.E.> Why not get a new sensor and fix the issue properly like you should be doing, instead of trying to "cheat the ecm", eventually causing SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE, as that exhaust system clogs up more and more, you driving for the next few weeks against all the back-pressure that is building up.

[Rawze]

Your post was not too clear ...

ARE YOU trying to get it off the side of the roads to make a delivery, and then take it home/somewhere to work on it? ... or are you just trying to just keep driving it against a most-likely blocked-up exhaust system intentionally?.

- When it gives you DEF and other alarms, that exhaust system management will stop working, and the DPF, etc. it will no longer keep itself clean.

Driving it with the system unable to keep itself clean properly, CAN AND WILL IN FACT START TO CAUSE SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE AFTER A WEEK OR 2, (maybe less) DEPENDING ON HOW BAD IT ALREADY IS!.

========
If you are just trying to get it off the side of the roads to get it back home to work on it in a few days, etc. .. and you already have CT software, then there is noting at all stopping you from copying the file out of the ecm and e-mail it to me to have the derates/shutdowns removed. WHAT you do with the file is entirely up to you though, because like I said ...

DOING SO is only a temporary band-aide. Those shutdowns are there TO PROTECT THE ENGINE AND TURBO FROM HARMING ITSELF.. and YES.. It can destroy the engine fairly quickly by driving it against a blocked up DPF, DOC, etc!.

The shutdowns are there for a reason!. Having the derates/shutdown disabled is only a temporary solution to get it off the aide of the roads... and does not fix any real issues that the system may have.

[MageRoyal]

I can only assume u live in a foreign country where de-mandating is allowed ... U did mention deeleete.

You mentioned that you want to de-mandate it yourself. Theres nothing stopping you from doing it right this minute, according to your own post.

You say that you have the (Calterm) sw to to copy the file in/out of your engine. There is nothing at all stopping you from fully de-mandating the programming by simply copying the file & e-mailing it over to rawze or someone & have it 'fixed'. Costs nothing. Then is only a matter of adjusting the hardware (gutting cans, bock plate at the egr-cooler, etc.) for the rest of the changes.
this post comes to mind: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...2#pid68742

If your just looking for info only on how to make your own programming then u need to go to rawze's mumble server. The forum here is not the place for detailed ecm programming discussions.
mumble onfo: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...63#pid2163

[prejah72]

Thanks Rawze.
I understand what you are saying, been driving for the last 3 months, re-calibrating every couple of days. .
DEF Level Sensor in tank & Pump outside of pump was changed.
DEF doser was also cleaned, but did not solve the problem.
I know its quite stupid buts its costs me over $7K so far and counting....just been doing more oil changes to keep engine clean for now.

Codes are:
3712-SCR operator Inducement, Data valid but above normal range;
3714-Engine Torque Protection;
4677-DEF Tank Level Abnornmal;
4572-DEF Tank Temp;
6656-Unknown

How do I copy the files off the ECM?

[prejah72]

Thanks @MageRoyal , i am reading up on how to copy the ECM..

[Rawze]

(09-10-2023 )prejah72 Wrote:  ...
Codes are:
3712-SCR operator Inducement, Data valid but above normal range;
3714-Engine Torque Protection;
4677-DEF Tank Level Abnornmal;
4572-DEF Tank Temp;
6656-Unknown

How do I copy the files off the ECM?

that set of codes are pointing directly towards a J1939 network problem, and not so much a DEF sensor issue!.

The actual issue that it is complaining about is ...

4677 --- J1939 Network, communications issue with the DEF tank level sensor.
4572 -- J1939 Network, communications issue with the DEF tank temperature sensor.
3712 (and the others) --- The ECM is giving up on trying to read those sensors and its throwing it into disarray, because of excessive faults on the network!.


--- THE ECM IS TELLING YOU ... THE SENSORS READINGS ARE NOT YOUR ISSUE!!!>> THE COMMUNICATIONS ON THE J1939 NETWORK GOING TO/FROM THEM IS!!!


A>> WHERE DID YOU GET THE REPLACEMENT SENSORS?. -- AND WHO INSTALLED THEM>?. ARE THEY 100% OEM-CERTIFIED SENSORS PURCHASED DIRECTLY FROM CUMMINS, AND ARE THE EXACT MODELS/PART# REQUIRED BY YOUR ENGINE?.

B>> HAS ANYONE BOTHERED TO troubleshoot the J1939 network and check the plugs/harnesses going down there for places where the wiring might have gotten rubbed thru, corroded plugs pins?.. etc?etc?.???.

C>> HAS ANYONE bothered to check to see if the J1939 on canbuss #2 is 60-OHMS at the weather-pack connector?... and/or has chased the wiring down to the sensors, ETC???>


Because if it were only one sensor.. ok. maybe bad sensor.. but 2 sensors?. -- Either their cheesinessuinm junk (possibly after-garbage) sensors, or you HAVE A WIRING ISSUE!... NOT A SENSOR ISSUE!.

AND IF THAT SENSOR PAIR IS OEM FROM A STEALERS$IT.. THEN Y0U NEED TO TAKE THE TRUCK TO THE STEALERS$IT AND MAKE A DAMN WARRANTY CLAIM after ensuring it is NOT a damn wiring problem!!.


THAT IS WHY IT IS NOT GETTING FIXED!!!.

First and foremost though.. ALSO MAKE DAMN SURE THAT the program in your engine is the EXACT ONE FOR THE ENGINE SER# AND VEHICLE!... AND THAT IT IS UP TO DATE (within 6 months old).

NEXT is to ensure you did not get/end up with an after-market or non-oem branded (of fake) sensor .. and ONLY GOT THEM FROM CERTIFIED CUMMINS OR A CERTIFIED DEALERS$IT!!!.
.. AND NOT PURCHASED ONLINE, ETC!!!.

THEN THE J1939 NETWORK and wiring harness, plugs going that way, etc.etc. all NEEDS GOING THRU --- THOROUGHLY!. - That ECM does not throw those particular faults unless it cannot read the damn sensors on the network properly!>

[Rawze]

(09-10-2023 )prejah72 Wrote:  Thanks Rawze.
I understand what you are saying, been driving for the last 3 months, re-calibrating every couple of days. .
...

-- AND if you have been driving it FOR 3 DAMN MONTHS LIKE THAT!!!>.. Then I WILL BE THE ONE TO SAY IT!!!!

--- THAT IS COMPLETELY FOOLISH WITH HOW YOU ARE TREATING THAT EQUIPMENT !!! GAWD ONLY KNOWS HOW MUCH DA$MNNED PROGRESSIVE DAMAGE THAT ENGINE HAS IN IT IF IT IS UNABLE TO REGEN AND KEEP ITSELF CLEAN PROPERLY!, DRIVING IT LIKE THAT FOR SO LONG!!!

YOU EITHER NEED TO DE-MANDATE IT AT THIS POINT (if it is legal to do in your country) .. OR BETTER YET , STOP GUESSING AND WASTING DAMN MONEYS AT STEALERTS$ITS TRYING TO GET THEM TO FIX AN OBVIOUS J1939 NETWORK (or incorrect, fake,. etc. sensors, or wrong program in the ecm) PROBLEM!!! -- AND FIND./FIX IT PROPERLY!!.

[Rawze]

I was sent the program from this persons truck today. The plot thickens ...

Looks like I might have called it ...

(09-11-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  ...
First and foremost though.. ALSO MAKE DAMN SURE THAT the program in your engine is the EXACT ONE FOR THE ENGINE SER# AND VEHICLE!... AND THAT IT IS UP TO DATE (within 6 months old).
...

According to the VIN# and engine serial#,

The program in the ecm IS THE WRONG PROGRAM.

Not only is it the wrong program in the ecm, but this program that someone shoved in there at some point also CALLS FOR AN EXTRA PM(SOOT) AND OTHER AFTER-TREATMENT SENSORS, that are not likely even on the da$mn vehicle!.

No wonder this guy can't solve his aftertreatment issues. Nothing in the program is compatible with his truck or engine!.... nonetheless the aftertreatment system.


This makes me now wonder.. WHO DID THIS??>>>. WHO PUT THE WRONG PROGRAM IN THE ECM?.

It also looks like a clear attempt/case of some completely clueless fool, who had no clue what they were doing, trying to "turn up the power". The program in it is set at much higher HP than what the engine originally had. I can only assume for the moment that someone "wanted more power" and some clueless person shoved a higher HP program into it with absolutely no regard to the consequences for program/engine incompatibility!.

Between the program it calls for and the program sent to me ...

== The pistons and engine compression ratio do not match.
== The Injectors/hardware do not match.
== The Turbochargers do not match.
== The Entire After-treaement systems do not match.
== The da@mn CAC and entire intake and exhaust flow dews not match.

== h#ell, nothing matches!. It is about as incompatible as it gets.

Did the truck owner do this?. Did they pay someone to do it?... Who did this to this truck?.

I e-mailed you back my Phone #. Gimme a ring so that we can get to the bottom of this and what to do about it.