Calterm

[RollinCoal]

What he said, mumble can get intense and interesting convos going lol
Thats for sure

[Bengy88]

And an added bonus lots of laughs and bullshitting, also if you can’t take criticism and learn from it, and don’t have the patience to spend countless hours infront of a screen studying and figuring out WHY then don’t even step into it. Like rollincoal said he had weeks in his BDR overlay, I had 150+ hours in my first overlay…. That don’t count the time I spent studying, asking questions, being criticized, etc…. What you do with everything you pick up through all of that and how you learn from it will depict how your outcome will be. There is no simple lick and stick copy this here and that there. It’s very time consuming but good luck on the quest.

[Rawze]

I though that I would throw a little more info on this thread...

(03-29-2023 )Mcwrench94 Wrote:  ... When I run a compare report with a rawze file against a stock file on a 2350 there is upwards of 3000 differences.
...
I feel like I’m missing something.

Just made a 2350 file for someone in a foreign country w high sulfur diesel use. Of course, it took all of about 10 minutes to make it, because I have a template that applies all the changes at once ... so that, like you mentioned, someone does not have to type them in by hand one at a time.

Here is the (rough) breakdown of how many changes there were for each recommended phase of what needs to happen .. as roughly mentioned in this thread: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...7#pid58347

====

phase01 - Engine operating mode control re-mapping, so the engine no longer tries to warm up the cans under the truck and does not try to make extra heat and friction in the cylinders. This has to be done, regardless of any other systems that get switched off, because the ecm is simply too da%mn dumb, and has no auto-correct fix-it sauce inside it for any of this ::: 45 settings.

phase02- Shutting off all hardware (sensors, emissions hardware, etc.) that is no longer relevant to the engine, switched off properly, so that fault codes do not need to be blocked, or suppressed ::: 570 settings.

phase03 - switch off all derates and shutdowns, only leaving the oil pressure and coolant over-temp shutdowns in place ::: 241 settings.

phase04 - Switch off all aftertreatment, scr, doser, def tank, regen systems, .. everything related to managing the stuffs under the vehicle ::: 1839 settings. <- note. it seems like a lot, but the bulk of these settings are very intuitive and easy to recognize/do.

phase-05 - switch off all the egr management, etc. ::: 195 settings to get it all without having to block any fault codes, etc.

phase06 - switch off all aux./fall-back emissions that will kick in and try to alter the engine directly (alters fuel-air-mix, fueling, power, torque, etc.) as a result of all the main egr, aft. systems being turned off ::: 294 settings. most of these are also fairly intuitive and easy to recognize/do.

phase07 - correct all of the engines combustion processes management so that it is not harmful with all the systems + egr shut off. Things like fuel-air-mix, oxygen fuel limiting (black smoke management), injection timing, cold environment corrections/offsets, etc.etc. ::: 100 settings.

phase08 - removal of all unwanted performance limiters so that the engine is as responsive as possible (safely) and is no longer held back by ramp/rate limiters and such ::: 198 settings.

phase09 - Adjust the program so that power and torque changes can be made without fuel limiters getting in the way (without actually changing the power/torque yet) ::: 10 settings that were not already covered by the other phases so far.

phase10 - Desired stuffs like letting cruise and engine brake work down to 5 mph instead of 40mph, disable idle shutdown, etc. + any other optional stuffs that most vehicle owners would prefer be done while your in there ::: 54 settings.

-===

In total when you add it all up .. it becomes ~3,546 changes, and seems like a lot, but actually it is not really so bad when you look at it split apart as shown above.

[Rawze]

This above, leads to this next post...


What am I actually looking for when I review other people's programs to determine if they are harmful or not.


* I am looking @ phase01 settings to see if the ecm is going to get stuck in one of its emissions warm-up modes, trying to perpetually heat that DPF, src, etc. cans up to no avail because no one bothered to edit the engine operating mode control logic to prevent it. -= This is one of the most harmful things to the engine overall, and the biggest, most overlooked mistake that bad delete programs have in them.. all while the truck owner swears it runs smooth.. as it eats the liners out of the block, over-spools the turbo, and causes progressive damage over time.

* I am looking at phase02 settings to see if someone shut off sensors and hardware like the egr valve, doser injector, nox sensors, etc. or if they simply ignored shutting these things off properly, and instead, just blocked all the fault codes from showing up in the dash. when they only use blocked faults, this makes the ecm unstable and it also makes it difficult for someone to troubleshoot issues in the future. Mysterious power loss after a while, or issues with the power/boost, or fuel efficiency that cannot be explained all of the sudden .. problems that are elusive ghosts because faults are not allowed to show up in the dash or to be displayed and the ecm cannot tell you what is wrong any more. -= This is not very good.. though often I do not consider this a "bad delete" just because the blocked faults in itself... i just consider it tacky, and bad practice, and it can give someone a lot of grief if many blocked codes are used instead of shutting things off properly.

* I just glance over the derates and shutdowns that other people do.. most of them will not make the engine unsafe to operate unless they shut off the oil pressure shutdown or the coolant over-temp. This is all a matter pf someone's personal preference, so I do not normally call a delete bad if someone does different things here. i do however think that the truck owner should be made aware of what will and will not shut the engine off if something goes sideways though (like coolant or oil loss etc).

* phase04 - I look to see how complete someone did this part. if a lot of setting were missed here, then the ecm at some point in the future can suddenly act differently with no explanation.. leaving everyone guessing as to what might be wrong. -= I have seen trucks sometimes go a couple years, then all of the sudden a mysterious shut down or derate. No faults, no codes, nothing.. because an emissions manager finally decided it has enough, it was not fully switched off. Causes a lot of grief and ghost issues sometimes and that is not good.

* phase05 - I look to see if ALL egr gas requests for the combustion process have been switched off. I look to see how thoroughly someone shut off the egr managers, etc. - Not doing things properly here can lead to improper combustion and harm to the engine over time. I am not looking for someone blocking a fault code for the egr valve so much, though it should not be necessary, ... but rather egr gas assumption corrections and the like so that the combustion manager does not get offset and output the wrong data for turbo, fuel-air-mix, injection timing, etc.

* phase06 - Shutting off Aux. emissions systems properly is very important. It contributes heavily to instability within the engine as a whole. The aux emissions will screw with everything directly like injection timing, fuel-air-mix, power, torque, fueling, .. all the important stuffs.. and ironically .. it is NOT trying to protect the engine, there is not logic inside it for that, .. but mostly just clamp emissions output and it often does so in harmful ways. bad, unpredictable injection timing, other unstable offsets, etc. is the result. -= Those system have to be dealt with properly or someone ends up with a shortened engine life, and that is not good. it will fight tooth and nail against a lot of other changes inside the ecm and make the engine have less than optimal, have mystery losses of power levels, torque, smoothness sometimes, etc.

* pahse07 - (repairing the combustion processes) This is the second biggest concern, right along with engine mode control (phase01) one of them all. Most people doing engine "tuning" have no idea how to do these things and cause a lot of harm here. I have seen all kinds of crazy thing that people do here... and ironically, leaving all the combustion, etc. to the factory defaults (untouched values) is one of the bigger crimes that shorten engine life.

There is no fix-it sauce here ... The factory setting all on heir own, once the emissions system have been removed.. IS EXTREMELY HARMFUL!. Yet most people that go digging inside these delete files have false assumptions that the "factory or alpha1 settings' are somehow going to be ok, or less harmful if they are not touched. This is very bad, and is just as common as not editing engine operating mode states properly.

To add insult to injury here.. many people will go ahead and edit this stuffs ..but edit it the wrong direction, use settings from other engines that are NOT compatible, and do all sorts of horrible things that make matters much worse to boot. I see this a lot too.

* phase08 - I usually laugh or get a giggle out of this. I see where these "custom tuning" people will try to change the HP or torque settings, and then do not deal with any performance limiters, they set big HP and leave the dam$mned load based speed control and smart torque, etc. on and then wonder why it still feels soft when accelerating. That or they go way over-board and try to make ridiculous numbers for the power/torque. the ecm fighting them the whole time because no one bother to shut off any of those performance limiters and things that are going to absolutely fight against it. -=This clearly shows that people in there doing these deletes programs really do not know what they are looking at most of the time.

That is the bulk of what i look at when reviewing someones delete file that they send me. -= Unfortunately, it paints a very clear picture of how short-sighted most of the people doing this type of work really are.. and yet most of them have somehow convinced themselves that they know what they are doing. -= It is truly sad, it is beyond a complete joke, and if you even try to mention some of this stuffs, and how to do it properly to them, or how the ecm actually works internally, they only argue with you, fight against their own arrogance, and deny everything you say.

For this, I say .. the more that people can learn this stuffs for themselves instead of using these arrogant, ignorant fools who are quick to shove a questionable file into your truck with only a couple hundred changes and some destructive offsets.. .. .. the better off the trucking community will be for it by staying away from clowns like this.

[navycuda]

If you're looking to learn just about every aspect of the ecm and how it works... spend as much time as you can afford with Rawze in mumble! I'm sometimes surprised he still comes to talk to me after how... thick I can be at times!

I'm at about the extreme limit of my skill sets, so my progress is extremely slow, but this is a screenshot of one of the interfaces I'm working on for my editor. The basic concept is to take the plain english document and make that the part you edit.

   

[Rawze]

(04-06-2023 )navycuda Wrote:  If you're looking to learn just about every aspect of the ecm and how it works... spend as much time as you can afford with Rawze in mumble! I'm sometimes surprised he still comes to talk to me after how... thick I can be at times!

I'm at about the extreme limit of my skill sets, so my progress is extremely slow, but this is a screenshot of one of the interfaces I'm working on for my editor. The basic concept is to take the plain english document and make that the part you edit.

looks really good.

[walterk]

(04-06-2023 )navycuda Wrote:  If you're looking to learn just about every aspect of the ecm and how it works... spend as much time as you can afford with Rawze in mumble! I'm sometimes surprised he still comes to talk to me after how... thick I can be at times!

I'm at about the extreme limit of my skill sets, so my progress is extremely slow, but this is a screenshot of one of the interfaces I'm working on for my editor. The basic concept is to take the plain english document and make that the part you edit.

Navycuda, can you share where i can get that ECM Editor? Is there one for Windows? Thanks.

[navycuda]

(10-19-2023 )walterk Wrote:  Navycuda, can you share where i can get that ECM Editor? Is there one for Windows? Thanks.

It's still in development. It is not functional enough to be used yet. Timeline, unknown.

[Peashooter67]

Your way way way ahead of my understanding or ability. I’m a dinosaur in comparison.