Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure.

[Billdozer2]

(09-17-2017 )Hetdiesel Wrote:  I think I talked to you briefly on this once, is there any info on all this what to check for updated part numbers for pump replacement or rebuilds? I have 2 cm 2250s one 370,xxx and one just hit 500,xxx I'd like to look and see it if I have a time bomb and stop it before it explodes!

This is all I could find before I head off to bed.

Cummins TSB170015

   

[Hetdiesel]

Are people catching this on an oil sample first or just replacing before there's trouble?

[Rawze]

(09-22-2017 )Hetdiesel Wrote:  Are people catching this on an oil sample first or just replacing before there's trouble?

(CM2250 & CM2350 engines) ...
There is no warning, and it certainly will not show up in an oil sample before the failure. Best you can hope for is the proverbial 559 (or other low fuel pressure code) check engine light that only comes on when you get on it hard. YOu see that CEL light and a fuel rpesssure code,,.. you should be in panic city!. You need to catch it in less than 300 miles. If so, you may save the engine, but lots of damage is done no matter what. Continuing to drive one whit this fuel pressure code coming up in the dash is the death of the engine. That is really your only warning.

[Ragindirt]

Ok in an above post I posted my isx15 as a 871, with below info what would I have?

Family: 9cexh0912xal
Model: isx 485
Mfg date: 8/09

Fuel pump: FE 4921640
1134721

Am I still in the good 871 category?

[Waterloo]

(09-24-2017 )Ragindirt Wrote:  Ok in an above post I posted my isx15 as a 871, with below info what would I have?

Family: 9cexh0912xal
Model: isx 485
Mfg date: 8/09

Fuel pump: FE 4921640
1134721

Am I still in the good 871 category?

What is your question? Are you having issues with the motor or throwing codes? Is the mandate still intact? I have an 871 that was manufactured in 08, and the fuel system or "pump" has never given me issues. When I did the in frame we did replace all of the components in the fuel system, lift pump, all of the actuators, injectors, etc. Our fuel system is not at all like those ticking time bombs, worse case if say a lift pump fails you may have to tow the truck to a shop to fix, I think that would be our worse case scenario. Nothing is there to explode and boat anchor the entire motor in our 871's, unless you are abusing the hell out of it.

Your actuators, there are four, 2 metering and 2 timing, are usually where the issues arise as they age. I think they are good for roughly 700,000 to 800,000 miles of life and then they just wear out. They are not cheap, my plan before the in frame was to just buy one every week or two and when I had all four replace before they started failing on me. Kind of how I work my maintenance program, I pretty much now know what is next, and start gathering the parts and any special tools needed to do the job in advance.

But, if you are not having issues or throwing codes, I would say just the normal maintenance of the system is what need to keep an eye on, along with an overhead. Pretty much bullet proof compared the the CM-2250 and 2350, which I would not want to own. Those motors are ticking time bombs, but you know that. If you still have the mandate, I would get rid of that asap. I did mine in my driveway with some help from Unilever setting up my laptop and finding me the correct file for my particular CPL. Since then, and the in frame, I have not looked back, now just normal stuff that breaks on trucks. Need to replace my shocks... ;-)

[Ragindirt]

Thanks, guess I could be a little more informative in my ?. So I have always referred to my engine as a isx 15, given my vin and order parts. Going to start working on her more myself ( and yes do know mechanics, race bikes, car, and NG mechanic ).

So being new here and reading trends, watching videos, (which resulted from a bad shop experience); I just started doing an ERG tune. Fuel mileage started going down before I parked her late summer. Taking some needed down time.

Have 700 plus on her, looks good under valve cover, can't remember if it had two cams or one). Been months since an overhead, which I just watched between beers.

So question is, do I have an 871 or the 2250. Went to KW the other day to get a part and asked the guys what what series "oh it an isx 15" 'well no shi#t but what class'.

Looks like Kenworth site says new series came in 2010!

Guess I'll run over with the engine serial number, and fuel pump number and find out which pump I have. Talk with someone who knows.

[Hammerhead]

(09-24-2017 )Ragindirt Wrote:  Thanks, guess I could be a little more informative in my ?. So I have always referred to my engine as a isx 15, given my vin and order parts. Going to start working on her more myself ( and yes do know mechanics, race bikes, car, and NG mechanic ).

So being new here and reading trends, watching videos, (which resulted from a bad shop experience); I just started doing an ERG tune. Fuel mileage started going down before I parked her late summer. Taking some needed down time.

Have 700 plus on her, looks good under valve cover, can't remember if it had two cams or one). Been months since an overhead, which I just watched between beers.

So question is, do I have an 871 or the 2250. Went to KW the other day to get a part and asked the guys what what series "oh it an isx 15" 'well no shi#t but what class'.

Looks like Kenworth site says new series came in 2010!

Guess I'll run over with the engine serial number, and fuel pump number and find out which pump I have. Talk with someone who knows.

Your blinders have just been removed, so to speak...of course KW doesn't know if it's an 871 or 2250, to them an ISX is an ISX generally. Hence the "bad service experience" you mentioned, they just aren't that educated...because the manufacturer doesn't really want them to be. Undereducated people are controllable, uh oh, no he didnt!
Around here, you ARE speaking to people who know...

The designations come from the engine ECM model numbers.
Any ISX build date of 2008 is a CM871.
You will have two cams.
You DO NOT have to panic about your fuel pump.
The 871 uses an electronic lift pump for priming and a gear pump driven off the injector cam that produces under 400psi of fuel pressure. This is not a threadhold that is difficult to contain. The 871 and older engine produces the many thousands of psi fuel pressure internally in the injector at the point of injection, which is driven by the drivers side cam, thus not really having containment issues of extreme pressures.

The 2250, 2350, & X15 DO NOT have the drivers side cam to drive the injectors with the mechanical forces necessary to create the extreme injection pressures. The injectors are fed via a Common (fuel) Rail, hence the nickname Common Rail Engines. In order to supply enough pressure to properly inject the fuel, these motors use a front gear train driven XPI (brand) fuel pump that produces upwards of 40,000psi and feeds the injectors a full time supply in this range. The mechanical forces required to produce this kind of pressure, at the volume required to continuously feed 6 injectors is incredible, which is why these pumps are failing and have such short life spans.

Next time you have your 871 rocker cover off for any reason, look at the size of each of the cam lobes on the drivers side injector cam. Now just using a little common sense, ask yourself "how intelligent the engineers of the XPI fuel pump were when they use 2 lobes about the width of each VALVE lobe to produce the 38,000psi regulated injection pressures for ALL 6 injectors, when each one of those massive lobes on the injector cam drive 1 injector?"
Now with the blinders removed and your eyes adjusted to the light you are starting to get the picture we all talk about here, sad isn't it?
Now if you really want to beat your head against the wall, go ask your KW this same question. If he's anything like my guy, he'll just surf his shoulders and ask "What's the problem?" Welcome to the dark side...

If you are ever working on a common rail engine's fuel system, take head the warnings on them. 40ish thousand psi of fuel pressure WILL injure you!

[Hammerhead]

(09-24-2017 )Ragindirt Wrote:  Ok in an above post I posted my isx15 as a 871, with below info what would I have?

Family: 9cexh0912xal
Model: isx 485
Mfg date: 8/09

Fuel pump: FE 4921640
1134721

Am I still in the good 871 category?

When asking for help, this is the info required to get very specific info;

Engine Designation: 570, 870, 871, 2250, 2350, etc. build date can tell us this
CPL: a four digit number. This is the Critical Parts List and is sometimes needed for very specific info
HP/TQ: default and current settings if not original
ECM Code: this is the software version that is in your ECM. An 871 code will begin with AV. Expample AV10098.36 the number post decimal is the update number, this example is update 36
Tune Type: stock, @m*m^2, Puke Dits...

Here is what mine would look like:
CM871
CPL 2919
550/1850 stock
600/1900 current
SW Ver 10098.36
@m*m^2 Version U

[Ragindirt]

Thanks, now that I recall yes two cams and pump gear on driver side like between 5 and six cylinder.