New owner of KW T660 ISX15 CM2250

[Longshot]

This is my first post @ rawze.com - Awesome Place!
I am not a truck driver and have never been involved in trucking operations previously, but have a family member who is a driver, so I decided to venture into trucking from an operations perspective.

This is a chronicle of my experience so far and hopefully it might help out some others.

After deciding to buy a truck we set the following criteria:
1. Budget $40K
2. Vehicle 2011 or newer
3. Vehicle <450K miles
4. Peterbilt or KW with Cummins and 10 speed
5. Must be able to obtain an extended warranty by a reputable warranty company to avoid repair expenses associated with major failures >$4000
The warranty criteria limited me to dealers that can prescreen the vehicle for warranty coverage and bind a contract.

Not very many trucks nationwide met the criteria.
After performing searches over a few days period we headed to Minnesota.
We decided to buy the 3rd truck we looked at and test drove.
The truck passed the prewarranty inspection and the warranty company approved the warranty.
I took the base coverage for the engine (all parts that touch oil) and added several packages
Turbo and associated systems, Aftertreatment, Trans and Rear End - 2 years 240K miles - $8000 with $1600 down OUCH!

We started our drive back to Texas and about 300 miles into the drive the truck began a regeneration and it was producing some smoke from the engine compartment.
Later on the truck wanted a parked regen and also threw an error for Exhaust Trap Inlet Pressure - go figure !
We stopped in the middle of the night at MHC Kansas City and they thought we had a leaking exhaust flex pipe but said we were safe to drive on to Texas.
We had lots of parked regen requests that took too long - up to 2 hours.

Once back in Texas I did some research and of course got my education here at Rawse.
We had the DOC / DPF cleaned and then performed a partial EGR tune up and maintenance including all filters and engine fluids. Just to give you an idea the air filter in the truck was dated 2015 and miles 229000. It was August 2017 and 434K miles. I guess the truck was not very well maintained.
Cleaned the diesel doser which was totally caked over with packed soot and as I learned from Rawze would cause incomplete or failed regens.
We had an error code of intake manifold pressure sensor so I replace it (IMAP) but saw that the old one was likely original with the red pain but also quite clean - surprised about that.
Cleaned the Delta-P (also original and pretty clean) and took the truck to the stealership to get the codes cleared and a forced regen.
After that truck ran beautifully, like a completely different truck, and running regens were doing their job great.
We put the truck on the road with a carrier - we don't have our authority.
Truck ran for a week fine (3K miles) but we noticed some coolant loss and the reservoir sensor was going off even when the tank was full.
I bought a new sensor and the alarm did not stop - found out the hard way that the reservoir tank has a magnetic float and the tank needed replacing.

NOTE: To stop the incessant audible alarm I pulled the sensor out of the bottom of the reservoir and taped a small watch battery sized rare earth magnet to the top end of the sensor and it stopped the noise. No need to take out the reservoir - just reach under, grab the sensor and pull it out.

Next day (6) the coolant was down again, about 1/4 gallon, and that wonderful error code Exhaust Trap Inlet Pressure was back.

So I followed Rawze's video for pressure testing the coolant (pressure tester from Amazon). Took the truck completely out of service and sent and oil analysis in to Blackstone Laboratories - 8-29-2017
The pressure test would not hold pressure for very long - I would pump it up to about 18psi and in 2 hours was back down to less than 15 psi but no signs of external leaks - had quite a bit of residual engine heat. We had also disconnected the U shaped tube off the back of the EGR cooler with catch pan and disconnected the diesel doser and put a paper towel between the doser and exhaust pipe.

In the middle of the night after the engine was completely cooled I found numerous external leaks but NO coolant in my EGR cooler catch pan or diesel doser. I thoroughly cleaned the EGR valve and tube between EGR cooler and EGR valve - not very dirty (used choke cleaner as per Rawze suggestion) not like other pictures I have seen on Rawze.com with totally clogged up EGR piping. This lead me to believe that it was not likely to be a EGR cooler leak or we caught it very early.
On Labor day we bought all new coolant hoses and installed them, ran the truck for 30 minutes and let it sit overnight. No coolant loss and no visible external leaks.
Next day, Tuesday yesterday 9-5 I got the lab results back from Blackstone Labs, 1.08 coolant (sodium and potassium elevated) and some elevated metals indicating premature wearing.

Based on these results I search Rawze and find a long post that includes one user who had no signs of EGR cooler leaking into catch pan but in the end need EGR cooler replaced.

NOW I AM GLAD I BOUGHT THAT $8000 WARRANTY! hopefully they pay....
Truck was dropped at dealer last night and I believe they will come back with one of the typical causes of coolant in oil; EGR cooler, head gaskets or similar. Hopefully it will be nothing more than EGR cooler. If the dealer tells me it is the EGR cooler and I DID NOT have the warranty I would do the work myself. But with the warranty I will likely let the dealer do the work as I want them to guarantee that after the fix that it will also resolve the Exhaust Trap Inlet Pressure problem because if it does not they may need to clean the DPF again or go searching for sensors, gaskets, clamps, or whatever in the after treatment.

When I have a diagnosis from the stealership I will post again.

ONE NOTE: I thought about taking the truck to Mr Haggs but since we have the oil analysis and the dealer already told me that they think it is likely the EGR cooler I am happy to get that work done locally under warranty.

However, if in the end the Exhaust Trap error is not resolved by the dealer I will be requesting a load to Atlanta and a visit to Mr Haggs.

[Rawze]

It sounds like you have a lot to learn about owning a truck. -- And what about all the revenue lost while you sit and wait for all those warranty claims that aren't worth 2 cents 99% of the time!.

it is not the high costs of repair that gets you,.. It is letting yourself be at the mercy of THOSE GODDAMN STEALERSHITS AND OEM SHOPS that put you out of business while your lease payments get behind,.. your repair expenses go up exponentially, and all the other BAD DECISIONS YOU ARE MAKING bite you in the arse!.

* i would ahve checked it out much much more thoroughly when purchasing it. ---MYSELF, WHILE TAKING ENGINE COVERS OFF AND THINGS APART!!!

* I would have told them NO WARRANTY,.. as it is nothing but $8,000 worth of toilet paper most of the time. Warranty = you are at their mercy and only get half-arssed, questionable repairs done in the attempt to "save the warranty company money" and you are sitting for weeks to get something done, loosing tens of thousands in revenue!. even so,.. you STILL END UP shelling out thousands out of your own pocket in the end for s$it they won't cover.


* I would have taken that whole emissions system apart before even putting the truck on the roads and replaced EVERY ONE OF THE SENSORS including the Doser. inspected everything and taken pictures of the faces of the DPF, SCR, and DOC. and had them baked. - first time it acted up,.. de-mandate city -- in a hurry!l. --- I got money to make and don't have time to lolly-gag around with bulls4it systems that don't work right even what they are healthy!.

* i would have pulled the engine cover off and run the valve adjustment and inspected the cams

* i would have done an injector leak test,and about a hundred other inspections and tested the batteries and alternator, and A/C,.. etc.

* I would have certianly pressure tested the coolant system and checked for coolant in the oil up front...

* if you put 20 psi on the EGR cooler and let it sit overnight,..and it is still dry -- IT IS NOT LEAKY!!! PERIOD!!!

And in the odd chance that i found coolant in the oil,.. I WOULD PULL THE PAN AND PRESSURE TESTED IT AGAIN OVER NIGHT AND LOOKED FOR A LEAKY LINER OR HEAD!!!


And even in the worse case scenario, and it was the head or a liner, and I caught it within 30 days of the sale (believe me, I would have too),.. I WOULD MAKE THE USED TRUCK DEALER PAY HALF THE COSTS TO FIX IT, the other half on me so that i can take it to a shop of my choosing. .. THERE ARE LEMON LAWS AGAINST JUST THIS!!.

Lets say even worse,... and didn't catch it,,.. and didn;t have the extra cas$$ nor could pull an extension on the loan (the most likely thing to do) Worse case --- I would STILL have the option of drilling out the top of the coolant tank,.. connecting some long hoses and some copper tuning on a coil under the cab,..and relieved ALL the coolant pressure into a second catch tank, making it a zero pressure system,.. AND DRIVEN THE THE TRUCK ANYWAYS AND MADE SOME DAMN MONEY WITH IT WITH HE LEAKY HEAD AND LINERS AND SAVED UP FOR AN INFRAME AT A KNOWN GOOD SHOP INSTEAD OF THAT RIP-OFF STEALERSIT!!!. No coolant pressure = no coolant getting into the engine any more!.
more on this... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...9#pid13369


But what do I know,.. I know damn well I would not be sitting around and letting those bank notes add up,,.. or those bills at the house add up, while bragging about all the waiting around and warranty claims you are betting your future on. -- I WOULD KEEP THAT TRUCK ON THE ROAD MAKING MONEY WHILE I WORKED ON IT AND SAVED MONEY FOR FIXING IT!. -- Because THAT is what it takes to make it out here and be successful,.. take control of your problems and make what you got work!.

Not trying to offend anyone,.. just trying to help them realize that it takes some hard-core thinking to be a sucessful O/O these days if you want to also keep the money you make.

[Brock]

My first thought is that your smoke is bad exhaust gaskets on either side if the doser. Leaking gasket would cause bad regen.

I know warranty is a touchy subject around here. Obviously you've heard rawzes take in it! When I first started out, warranty was very important and now I be been around a while.... I see new owner ops all think that way too and all the rawzes in the world won't change thier minds.

I had a premium 2000 warranty and had good luck claim wise. 2 holes were bad so they did all 6, I put a new head on as the labor was already covered....... but here's where it gets interesting.....

The dealership charges such a high hourly rate and the warranty company has a job spending cap and dictates what they will pay..... and it's nowhere near the quote from the dealer. I told them I wouldn't pay anything, that's why I had warranty. Well my next rebuild I found the dealership used junk cheap ass cylinder kits and I am 90% sure they charged me for a new head only to put mine back on with new valves and guides in order to offset thier costs/profits.

Truck didn't run right from the minute I picked it up.

So In your situation, depending on who the warranty company is..... I would pull it out of the dealership and bring it to a reputable quality shop to do the work. I know premium 2000 only cared that a certified person do repairs..... Not a dealership.

[Waterloo]

Get the truck to Mr Hagg... Enough said.

[Longshot]

Thanks again for the inputs and once again I agree with all of the feedback.
I can say this, I am a software engineer and I built, for example, {**Content removed by protection bot**} which is now owned by { ** name removed**} and I have a full-time job working for a global telecommunications company making a very good salary. Even at that I have spent most of my last 3 weekends in and under that truck replacing all filters, fluids, cleaning up the doser, the EGR valve, Delta-P, replaced the reservoir because the low level alarm was going off even when the tank was full, changed the IMAP sensor, and I did have a stealership (Rush Peterbilt) remove and bake the DPF and DOC but I negotiated a price of $420 to do the job and I have the receipts to prove it AND they did it same day. So sometimes for me it is better to have someone else do specialty work that I do not have the time, tools, experience or facility to do the work in - and I factor in that I have a day job already.
Today the Kenworth dealer called me and told me the EGR cooler is leaking but since I have an oil analysis that shows coolant in the oil then EGR was a possibility even though I used Rawze method to test it and I got no coolant in the catch pan. And it is true that I could replace it myself this weekend, and it might come to that yet. But I have a $500 deductible since the warranty is in its 1st 90 days, after that $250. If they agree to pay for the work tomorrow and the work is done by end of day Monday then for me the $500 is better than me spending $800 for the part and doing the work myself, but for me that is a call I can make based on factors like I have a good paying fultime job already.
However, If the warranty does not approve the work in the morning or the stealership cannot get the work done by EOD on Monday then I will likely do the work myself this weekend so I can get the truck back on the road - that is if hurricane IRMA does not take out 2 Florida datacenters owned by the company I work and for which I am partially responsible for disaster recovery efforts in that event.
I'll get my CDL permit in two weeks and I'll take a couple weeks off from my day job and spend some time in the seat as well.
Hopefully this buys me just a little respect from the group considering all I knew about trucking 4 weeks ago was that it hauls stuff from one place to another.

[Rawze]

(09-07-2017 )Longshot Wrote:  ...
I negotiated a price of $420 to do the job and I have the receipts to prove it
...
Hopefully this buys me just a little respect from the group considering all I knew about trucking 4 weeks ago was that it hauls stuff from one place to another.

I think last time I priced it around here, it was roughly $250-$300 or $450 at stealershits. That price you mentioned is right in that ballpark range.

This place is for helping others in a genuine way who own their trucks and want to be as profitable as possible. it is not about building up respect and likes and all the other crap bulls$it that the younger generation of idiots are hopelessly addicted to. if anyone is here because they want respect and likes and popularity ,... >>> TAKE THAT S$IT TO FACE-FOOK WHERE IT BELONGS!

If they want to learn and know about their truck, how to keep it profitable, and are tired of all the other bulls%it on the Internet that is mostly marketed and does not work,.. Maybe this is the place to discuss such things,..but then again, they have to put up with Rawze's hot-sauce attitude too. I try to keep it realistic and knock people's thinking out of the clouds and back to reality whenever I spot it. Some people just don't like that and I don't blame them.

I have been reading all your posts and as a whole,.. you ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. You are asking questions and so far, I have given you a hard time about it on purpose,.. only to show that there is a long journey ahead of you and a lot of hard lessons you have not faced yet towards owning a truck. I have met hundreds and hundreds of people with your same exact thinking towards relying on those "warranties" only to hear them cry and it hold them back because they wasted so much money on it, allowing it to control them. -- What a waste is all I have to say. I had a phone call earlier today and the same scenario -- guy was saying -> "butt i paid $5000 for this warranty" and in the same breath they are afraid of voiding it to get the truck custom tuned and save them $8,000 - $10,000 a year in fuel costs all while complaining that the truck can't break 5-6 mpg no matter what they do. The the next thing out of their mouth was "I had to pay $2000 out of pocket because the warranty would not cover my turbo actuator and the dealer charged me $1000 more in costs troubleshooting it and replacing it because the warranty did not cover parts with wires on them" -- where is the warranty in that? -- NONE!. Bad business decision to rely on something that is costing you more money than it was ever worth.

-- Stories like this are almost EVERY WEEK around here,,. so my screaming at you about how bad warranties and how much money you wasted IS VERY JUSTIFIED BELIEVE IT OR NOT! - STOP lying to yourself!. Even those few cases where the truck owner had a bad engine and they actually paid for the re-man,... IT WAS A TOTAL SH$IT JOB AND THEY HAD TO RE DO IT IN A YEAR OR SO OUT OF POCKET TO GET IT RIGHT AGAIN!!. WHY???-- BECAUSE THEY LET THE STEALERSHIT DO THE WORK!!!

And then ther is this --> THE FIRST TIME YOU COME ON HERE CRYING ABOUT THAT DPF AND SCR AND EMISSIONS IS SYSTEM KEEPING YOU PAINFULLY BROKE AND IN THE SHOPS OVER AND OVER " and now you want to DE-mandate it or go out of business (because that day is coming believe me),.. THAT WARRANTY WILL BECOME VOID AND ALL THAT $8000 YOU WASTED could have gone towards actually making that truck profitable.

-- if that stealershit has deemed your EGR cooler the culprit of the coolant in the engine oil,.. MAKE THEM DO A PROPER BUBBLE TEST ON IT AND WATCH THEM DO IT TO PROVE IT BEFORE APPROVING ANY REPAIRS! -- I would take coolant in the oil VERY VERY seriously, and it does not take the idiots at a stealer to find it.

My advice,.. get that truck AWAY FROM THEM AND AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE! and pressure test that coolant system to 20 PSI overnight with the oil pan off it and the back side of the egr cooler elbow pipe off. -- NO COOLANT IN 24 HOURS with 20 PSI on it = NOT LEAKING!!! -- but don't listen to me,.. keep wasting that money and waiting for that truck to go in the bay and that extra week of waiting again for those warranty approvals and then wait some more and then second guess it again and 3 weeks form now,..; more mysterious coolant losses and more down time and the cycle of "trucking business killing warranty woes" sets in and all the tens of thousands on lost revenue they are not going to reimburse you for.

it is a cycle I have seen at least a hundred truck owners go through and you are on that path front and center based on the things you are posting on here. Let us know how it turns out because if you gained something form it,.. YOU WOULD BE THE RARE EXCEPTION, NOT THE NORM!!!

[Brock]

Dealerships have thier place. I believe Waterloo uses his quite often on things he can't solve himself.

I would never again use any dealership for major repairs. I use them because they have all the schematics and programs available to them whereas small shops can't afford all of them.

I hear alot of people justifying dealer maintained trucks.... let me explain why that's bad.

Dealerships often have apprentices outnumbering journeyman, and they hire alot of people with very little experience because dealerships pay the least. Because of this, the second a mechanic gets enough experience, he will go elsewhere. The dealerships are flooded with "techs" who do what a computer tells them but couldn't diagnose a simple problem to save thier lives.

[Longshot]

Nice! I get it - I agree - and I'm in it for the long haul - and I can take some harsh criticism, especially when I learn from others past tough lessons so I can avoid those hard knocks myself.

[Waterloo]

(09-07-2017 )Brock Wrote:  Dealerships have thier place. I believe Waterloo uses his quite often on things he can't solve himself.

I would never again use any dealership for major repairs. I use them because they have all the schematics and programs available to them whereas small shops can't afford all of them.

I hear alot of people justifying dealer maintained trucks.... let me explain why that's bad.

Dealerships often have apprentices outnumbering journeyman, and they hire alot of people with very little experience because dealerships pay the least. Because of this, the second a mechanic gets enough experience, he will go elsewhere. The dealerships are flooded with "techs" who do what a computer tells them but couldn't diagnose a simple problem to save thier lives.

Spot on Brock, these dealers and shops have their place, and I do use them. Especially for things that I am just not equipped to do. I enjoy my fingers and toes to much. But, when I do visit them, I have a pretty good, or sometimes a complete understanding of what the issue is and what I need done. I will not walk into any shop until I at least believe I have a solid grasp of what is going on with the truck. I am not walking in there saying my truck is making a moo sound and farting. You do that, and just break out the check book, because you are about to get butt raped by a real professional. Been there, learned my lesson, and still have the handprints on my backside.