Cummins X15 after treatment issues

[Envirotec]

Hi Rawze,

I took some photos of piping for EGR on our 2018 Cummins X15. Please see attached photos. I keep having to clean DPF and DOC. Turbo and VGT actuator are original with truck from 2018. Truck has 430k miles. Cannot figure out our clogging DPF issues. The Piping for EGR has soot in it but its not clogged like an artery. Please let me know your thoughts?? Also, how do you know if a turbo is bad? And does a bad turbo create soot in DPF? How does it happen? I have Insite if that helps with checking for bad turbo. I just don't know where all the soot buildup is coming from!!

Thank you in advance for all the help and advice you provide. Its greatly appreciated!

Derek

[attachment=9512]
[attachment=9513]

[tree98]

Excessive soot production can have multiple causes. How often (looking with insite) is it asking for a regen?

Looking at the pipe itself is only a small part of what needs to be done.
When was the last time you did an EGR tuneup, where you actually replaced the IMAP and other sensors + cleaned out the Delta-P and exhaust pressure sensor passages, and replaced their sensors too?

Is it burning oil between oil changes?

Has it been asking for a parked regen? Have you been ignoring it ?

When were the cans baked last and who did it ?

[Envirotec]

(06-13-2024 )tree98 Wrote:  Excessive soot production can have multiple causes. How often (looking with insite) is it asking for a regen?

Looking at the pipe itself is only a small part of what needs to be done.
When was the last time you did an EGR tuneup, where you actually replaced the IMAP and other sensors + cleaned out the Delta-P and exhaust pressure sensor passages, and replaced their sensors too?

Is it burning oil between oil changes?

Has it been asking for a parked regen? Have you been ignoring it ?

When were the cans baked last and who did it ?

Never done EGR tune up. Sensors have soot on them but nothing to make them unrecognizable. When I took pipe and sensors off, the soot load seemed to be okay?? DPF was baked with using the complete FSX equipment. It was done three times in three months due to truck shutting down from excessive soot in DPF (not the only truck either). Never looked at INSITE on regen history but it automatically throws the high exhaust temp light and shuts off if you are not parked. Thus, the parked regens take anywhere from 40 minutes to an hour and 15 on a daily basis sometimes twice a day in a 12-14 hour day.

My problem is that I had one truck with a MIL light for maintenance of the DPF. Nothing of serious concern (truck ran fine and regens were normal). But I decided to finally get DPF professionally baked starting with our oldest truck as I thought the mileage made sense to do it (430,000). Did four trucks in a matter of a month and then after a few weeks all the trucks now have the same issue with shutting down from too much soot in filter according to INSITE. Also, the trucks are always spooled up (sounds like regen) when parked but no high temp or parked regen light. This only happened after baking filters. None of the trucks had any maintenance done in regards to EGR and Aftertreatment systems (which I know is a problem). But there were no issues prior to baking the filters and DOC. I'm almost certain that the shop doing it and the equipment used is not the problem but at the same time all my issues arose immediately after filters and DOC baked. I even pulled the filter and DOC in photos above to re-test the filter without baking and they said the filters were fine. They suggested turbo issues but I cant wrap my head around all the trucks having a turbo problem. Also, when DPF and DOC was cleaned, I reinstalled without changing any sensors. I can see two trucks with roughly the same mileage having same issue at same time. But not four, different mileage, plus not having any issues prior to baking/cleaning.

Been struggling with this since the beginning of March on a daily basis. Refuse to bring to dealer on these issues. I've tried that and truck somehow comes back worse, literally every time. Its actually mind blowing! I'm in the process of doing EGR tune up now on one truck (photos above). I have a strong feeling it wont solve my issues but I'm praying that it does. The whole situation has me defeated and I cant see spending 8k on a turbo when I don't know what the problem is and 3k on a DPF. times 4.

Also, how have the Aftertreatment systems improved from the ISX engines to the newer X15? Is the EGR tune up process the same? All our engines are from 2018-2023. I believe they are the efficiency series 450 HP.

Thank you in advance!!

[tree98]

Did you reset the soot counter when you reinstalled the cans after cleaning? That counter only counts up and it doesn't know if the cans have been cleaned unless you tell it. This is easily done using insite.

If you run these engines with the exhaust pipe disconnected from the back of the turbo, do they smoke like crazy ?

What makes you think the turbo would be to blame for any of this? Are you also getting codes pertaining to the turbo ?

[marek4792]

Do you know if your exhaust manifold/turbo gaskets are leaking? These things are good about not leaving any soot behind when they leak. Unless you cold start your truck and spray it down with soapy water you'll never find them. I found one on mine and after removing the manifold found another I never knew about.. Just something to consider.. If removed check for heat cracks...

[Envirotec]

(06-19-2024 )tree98 Wrote:  Did you reset the soot counter when you reinstalled the cans after cleaning? That counter only counts up and it doesn't know if the cans have been cleaned unless you tell it. This is easily done using insite.

If you run these engines with the exhaust pipe disconnected from the back of the turbo, do they smoke like crazy ?

What makes you think the turbo would be to blame for any of this? Are you also getting codes pertaining to the turbo ?

Not a crazy amount of soot. Seems normal. After a second of full throttle it clears up immediately. And yes I reset the filter through the advance ECM to let INSITE know a “new filter” was installed. Not sure if this is the same as the counter you mention?

[Envirotec]

(06-19-2024 )marek4792 Wrote:  Do you know if your exhaust manifold/turbo gaskets are leaking? These things are good about not leaving any soot behind when they leak. Unless you cold start your truck and spray it down with soapy water you'll never find them. I found one on mine and after removing the manifold found another I never knew about.. Just something to consider.. If removed check for heat cracks...

Had a few exhaust leaks. Nothing on manifold luckily. Used soapy water as you mentioned. But this was way before I had any issues with Aftertreatment system

[Rawze]

Your issues are likely that you have not gone thru the egr system thoroughly and cleaned it all out + replaced all the old sensors!. It does not matter what the sensors look like. They read wrong and make for excessive soot, turbo goes crazy, and all sorts of other issues when the EGR cooler itself, the egr piping, etc. starts becoming restrictive. Sensors reading incorrectly as well due to the cross-channels in the egr delta-p circuit, exhaust press circuit, DPF delta-P circuit, etc. getting sooted up, clogged channel thru the thermostat housing for the exhaust BP sensor, IMAP pressures, temp sensors, etc. reading incorrectly.

DPF/scr, etc. Delta-P sensors, temp sensors at the DPF, etc. too. Then there is the NOx sensors, which are only good for about 400k miles at best, then start to read incorrectly, making the system demand more and more of itself and causing all those faults that keep coming back'

I.E.> Its a combination of things that makes the system act up endlessly, and you have to co thru and repair it all before it gets somewhat happy again .. Not just part of it.

- The truck did not have repeating dpf issues over and over when it was brand new .. so what has changed is all the clogged and sooted up components + aging leaking exhaust piping, etc. It you don;t chase down ALL OF IT .. then it will be nothing but a plague.


Also.,. how are you driving these trucks?.. because if there is a lot of idling.. start and go.. etc.. then the regen system will not re3gen the thing properly, due to it being cancelled all the time when shifting in/out of gear, etc.. and soot building up due to excessive idle time.

and like mentioned.. how much do they make smoke on a test drive when the exh. piping is opened up before the first can?.

[Envirotec]

(06-20-2024 )Rawze Wrote:  Your issues are likely that you have not gone thru the egr system thoroughly and cleaned it all out + replaced all the old sensors!. It does not matter what the sensors look like. They read wrong and make for excessive soot, turbo goes crazy, and all sorts of other issues when the EGR cooler itself, the egr piping, etc. starts becoming restrictive. Sensors reading incorrectly as well due to the cross-channels in the egr delta-p circuit, exhaust press circuit, DPF delta-P circuit, etc. getting sooted up, clogged channel thru the thermostat housing for the exhaust BP sensor, IMAP pressures, temp sensors, etc. reading incorrectly.

DPF/scr, etc. Delta-P sensors, temp sensors at the DPF, etc. too. Then there is the NOx sensors, which are only good for about 400k miles at best, then start to read incorrectly, making the system demand more and more of itself and causing all those faults that keep coming back'

I.E.> Its a combination of things that makes the system act up endlessly, and you have to co thru and repair it all before it gets somewhat happy again .. Not just part of it.

- The truck did not have repeating dpf issues over and over when it was brand new .. so what has changed is all the clogged and sooted up components + aging leaking exhaust piping, etc. It you don;t chase down ALL OF IT .. then it will be nothing but a plague.


Also.,. how are you driving these trucks?.. because if there is a lot of idling.. start and go.. etc.. then the regen system will not re3gen the thing properly, due to it being cancelled all the time when shifting in/out of gear, etc.. and soot building up due to excessive idle time.

and like mentioned.. how much do they make smoke on a test drive when the exh. piping is opened up before the first can?.

So I pulled everything off. As far as cleaning the pipes and sensors, what do you use? Any chemicals, just air, brush, etc??? How do you clean the EGR cooler and EGR valve ?