ISX CM871

[Bengy88]

(06-10-2023 )Dieselboy Wrote:  

(06-10-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  You are wasting all of your time and moneys by letting the OEM stealers$its work on it,..

Thanks for the response rawze. What I was told was cylinder 3 was losing 80% compression and cylinder 4 was losing 60%. I’m not sure on the testing method. The head passed a coolest leak test according to them. It’ll probably be a miracle if this extended service contract pays out on this. I had to bring it to a Cummins certified shop for any claims process though, which is why I did so. Hard to know the right thing to do in these situations if you haven’t gone through them before.

Rawze is 100% correct about the dealerships, I was a dealership mechanic. The only thing that set me apart is I wouldn’t settle with the bullshit they taught. I wanted to know all of the why’s.

Also I’m not a Cummins certified shop and I’ve Never found an aftermarket warranty that wouldn’t pay. Sometimes you just gotta prove smarter than they are.

[Rawze]

(06-10-2023 )Dieselboy Wrote:  

(06-10-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  Repeating turbo and egr valve failures...

WHEN THE FIRST TURBO FAILED prematurely .. DID ANYONE AT ALL BOTHER TO ACTUALLY SEE WHAT INSIDE THAT TURBO ACTUALLY FAILED?/...AND WHY!???,... AND DO A PROPER ANALYSIS ON IT???.... --=- SO THAT THE ISSUE DID NOT REPEAT ITSELF????.

ANYONE CHECK THE EXHAUST TURBINE??>>> to see if it got damaged????. .. something went thru it??....

-= BECAUSE IF IT DID.. I CAN TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT WENT THRU IT!!@!..
...

Dang, the way you break it down it sounds like this is likely exactly what happened. So is this just happening to everyone who doesn’t run this motor regularly? Is this common on newer diesel motors also?

YES.. IT IS A VERY COMMON ISSUE INDEED!!!..

Any engine make/model that sits a lot and has an EGR cooler on it that can collect soot and moisture. And especially so if that EGR cooler starts to seep/sweat coolant (without actually failing) and no one catches it.

And like you mentioned.. it blasted some white smoke when u cranked it.. so it would not surprise me at all if your DID have a small leak.

- I have seen plenty of people over the years go thru 5 or 6 turbo's etc. on their engine and have nothing but grief .. and then call me up. ... Five seconds into the conversation, to find out this same damn information.

- take the turbo apart.. see all the exhaust turbine damage on the blades, clearly something went thru it. Then pull that EGR cooler off it, bang it against a damn tree stump (being sarcastic.lol) and watch all the glass-hard chunks of carbon come flying out of it!.

Seen it plenty.

and NOPE.. NEVER ONCE HAVE I SEEN a damn OEM stealersh$it nor certified engine repair shop bother to do any of this to see if that is what is wrong... THEY ALMOST ALWAYS keep replacing tuirbo's and even do an entire rebuild,... leaving that old EGR cooler sitting right on the side of that block the whole time (because it does not need to be removed for a rebuild on an ISX).

Only to get it all back together a week or more later .. AND ANOTHER TURBO FAILS!!! .. AND MORE ENGINE DAMAGE ALL OVER AGAIN!!!..> because they are simply that damn stupid!,

[Dieselboy]

Edited

[Bengy88]

(06-10-2023 )Dieselboy Wrote:  Geez what a crazy series of events. The service manager did mention the previous shop in Jacksonville did a “dirty” install of the turbo. Meaning it looked like they didn’t do a clean out. Sounds like they may be referencing what you’re talking about. I’m not sure how he could tell that but the comment was made.

Look at it this way. Dealerships push time…. The faster they get the job done then the more money they make, they offer incentives to the techs on speed also. They faster they get shi#t done then the more money the tech makes. That is the biggest thing they push. They could give a flying f*** less if you get 10 years out of your engine. Why? Because if you took it to them the first time why wouldn’t you take it the second. In the end they get your money. But people hear DEALERSHIP and “master certified “ and they think the best in the world is working on their truck. I’m master certified…. It don’t mean shi#t, it’s a piece of paper that sounds good and isn’t worth as much as it weighs. I learned more before and after the dealership than I did at the dealership.

Now guys like myself in the small shops make money off their name and word of mouth instead of time. We have to do the job better than the factory did so that you go tell the next guy about our work. So you go tell them that we fix what dealerships can’t or that your aftertreatment has went 3 years with no issues after we fixed it. Thats the difference in the real mechanics and the dealership techs. I wouldn’t let a dealership work on my bicycle.

Also I’m very interested as to how they got their compression measurements and how they got their figures. I mean did it sound like 80% or did they actually set down and do the math to convert it to a percentage?

I hope they get your shi#t right man but I seen a quote this week from Cummins to build a cm2350 for 19k with a reman head, that’s a lot of money to piss away.

[Dieselboy]

Edited

[Rawze]

(06-11-2023 )Dieselboy Wrote:  ...
Based on the pictures of the head do you believe it needs to be replaced or is it still usable? Also, the pics of the cylinders and top of the pistons? Does it need new liners and pistons? The reason I ask is I would love to take your professional opinion to the folks at Cummins and perhaps argue as to why it needs all that, if you don't think it does?

Taking a very close, second look, zoomed in ...

In the pics you provided.. THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT SOMETHING DID GO THRU CYLINDER #1 at some point, but it does not look so much like metal, rather than carbon chunks or just heavy pitting due to coolant intrusion, who knows. I have seen coolant intrusion do that to the bottom of the head before.

The valve(s) themselves are not beat up, usually indicating no actual metal chunks were in there. --> . It is somewhat hard to see in the photos ... but You can see that something got into the cylinder and damaged the bottom of the head at some point if you zoom way in and look closely.

Something DID damage that cylinder.

It also looks like the liners have been dusted at some point .. like some idiot ran the engine for a while with no, or an improperly installed, air filter on it.

After taking a harder look.. these things become quite obvious, and it points right to some kind of engine abuse by someone some time in its past.

(just a heads up for people reading this thread)...
A PERSON ABSOLUTELY CANNOT RUN A COMMERCIAL DIESEL ENGINE WITHOUT AN ADEQUATE AIR FILTER ON IT!! ... NOT EVEN FOR A SINGLE DAY NONETHELESS FOR ANY EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME!!!. Even simple dust will wash out cylinder cross-hatching real fast on one... and several cylinder liners, especially towards the back, look just like someone did exactly this at some point.

(I edited my post(s) above to reflect these new findings, so that others reading the thread in the future do not get mis-directed).

Garbage-can OEM stelaers$it aside ...

As far as the damage to cylinder #1.. who knows what went thru it.. could have been carbon chunks from the EGR cooler.. like mentioned above.. or it even could have been from some complete moron running the engine with a damaged or missing Air filter on it. Maybe a missing intake boot between the turbo and the air cleaner?... who knows.

That would be my thoughts after taking a really close, second look.

[Bengy88]

Yessir. What Rawze said. Just make sure they set your liner height correctly. Most people don’t even check height after liners are dropped in, make sure the head bolt holes are cleaned properly and the head is torqued to spec, engine sits over night and the head bolts re checked at 375ftlbs the next morning, and chances are with 55k miles the rods aren’t hurt but the bushings in the ends of the rods need to be checked thoroughly if not replaced. It’s always recommended to replace the rods or at least the bushings but at 55k miles I can understand not changing them if they look new. (Just my opinion others may disagree)

Afterwords I would have the ecm code checked and make sure the file in your ecm indeed does match the esn of your engine. Make them do a good….extremely good egr cleaning, every pipe, component, and port.

It’s obvious that something was neglected at some point in this engines life. Might as well make its second run worth it. Don’t be afraid to ask questions and demand perfect work from them. If they have an issue with answering questions or f*** you around instead of answering them, won’t show you the why’s and how’s and you are spending 15-20k with them then they don’t need to be working on your shi#t.

[Rawze]

The more I stare at the pics, especially at cylinder #1, it looks just like it blew the head gasket at one point... and then someone likely stuffed some kind of radiator stop-leak or something else in the engine?. What is that crap in the pic at area 'A.'?. -= is this signs of a blown head gasket???.. or the reflection of light for whatever gunk is on the head?. -= hard to tell.



Also... THIS HEAD must have sat outside in the rain or something?? -- The photos show that it was NOT freshly pulled off the top of the engine!. -= You can see signs of rust on it as if it sat outside or something, and then rusted up before the photos were taken...


The rust where each of the liners mated to the bottom of the head happened AFTER the head was removed.. not before. There is also rust buildup indicating that the head was laying on its side too, while wet with water.

-== OR -=-- Was some godd#$amn complete idiot use mostly/straight water in the radiator system??... and not actual ELC red???..

Also, WHY is there signs of 'green' coolant in the one photo??. -= THAT IS THE WRONG type of coolant to run in a commercial wet-liner engine.. ESPECIALLY IF IT SAT A LOT!!!!>>>

-== Something is quite suspicious about this set of pictures of the head if you ask me ... or is it the beers talkin'?.

[Dieselboy]

Edited