older truck vs newer truck

[Rawze]

(03-28-2017 )JEastonjr Wrote:  ...

I'm thinking Pete 379
...

engine aside, A Pete 379 is about the most fuel INEFFICIENT square-nose fuel sucking truck you could possibly own! -- Are you looking to actually make a profit? -- or fund the already rich oil companies?

I think you have been listening to the wrong people and have a LOT to learn!

What kinds of freight are you planing to haul? -- What is your business strategy? -- How do you intend to make an actual decent profit, unlike 80% of all the people who had the same dream and failed!? -- those are the questions and concerns you should be asking FIRST!- LONG BEFORE you go looking at some trucks that are NOT PROFITABLE ANY MORE!

I can see it now,.. that athlete who shoots themselves in the foot before the race, because some ding-dong told him it would be cool!>

[Rockycoon75]

Go buy the truck you truly want. You have to be happy and prideful with what you buy. Hooded trucks cost more on the front end but are worth more on the back end. I knew I was going to sacrifice some fuel mileage with a good but I'm not a prostar fan. I understand what Rawze is saying but only you understand what/why you want what you do. If it was all about pure fuel mileage we would all drive old Geo metros as personal cars.
Spend some time on here and pick around and read different stuff. I liked what I read about the 871 so I got one. I'm working through a few problems with mine but I'm happy with it. Lots of 08-10 c15's on the market now but they come with a whole house full of issues. So beware if those. There is some good cat minds on here if you buy one.
Just leave your feelings at home because you will get some of Rawze' s "hot sauce" from time to time but a wealth of knowledge too.

[Magard]

At the end of the day a square hood with air cleaners and exahaust hanging out everywhere looks cool especially if someone else is washing it and putting fuel in it. Who wants to be tired and broke at the same time. Cool factor will only carry you so far. I've owned Peterbuilt 378, Western Star, International Cabover,2 Frieghiner century's, and now a Volvo. The truck that made me the most money was the international cab over. Mostly sercumstantal. You'll get over that 20000 dollar premium for a 379. Volvo for 20 grand less, way more quiet and comfortable, and roomy than any over rated Pete I ever drove. If I was building a beater of a truck for mountain work I might go square hood, metal hood, but the external air cleaners from my experience have dusted more engines, mostly from faulty filter, and having two, you can run a rediculous time before changing. By the time you realize something is wrong it's to late. Those chrome riddled trucks invite you into a sickness that all you want to do is polish your chome, drive faster, buy more fuel, and look cooler. Nothing good for your pocket book. It will keep you motivated to drive more which brings you to the,"If I work harder than the next guy than surely I'm making money mentality". "If I'm tired I must be making money". "I got a cool truck I must be successful". Burning more fuel is a big deal. And the cool factor is like devorceing your wife that you have a family with and a life with, for some young pretty fun girl that spends all your money on clothes and boobs,so you can haul her dumb ass around and think your cool because you have her. All the while the successful people of the world know your a dumb ass.

Sorry square hood guys. Just thought I would give this guy another perspective. I've been on both sides of this deal. Luckily I got over being cool before I got a new wife and family.
Keep your head and be successfull.

[Wildpib1]

Every body like a cool look truck.. but me I want a truck get me point a to point b without any problem.. ofcouse after point b there must be big sum of cash in my pocket..
Rawze book get me there, Rawze web, rawze experiences get me there, Rawze driving technic get me there, Rawze free help get me there... etc... few people here that I met at Rawze place, all I know they all happy... I am the happinest that I got same truck as rawze... lucky me because I chose Prostar when I look in front of the tractor just like alien head.. I like cummin because I used to have n14 with 1.8 mil and 1 time inframe, still doing 7 mpg.. have to trade it because I live in cali... lucky me first time met him, he got the same truck 1 yr newer, he fixed the em first because stupid me believe in a mechanic to bring it up 560 hp.. that mechanic put a Kenworth file in my ecm... thing started from there.. I got all straight out by master rawze. Whatever truck u got.. keep in mind first thing need to be done is to install boost and pyro gage, drive by it... and be prepare to get dirty
Good luck

[Rawze]

(03-30-2017 )Magard Wrote:  At the end of the day a square hood with air cleaners and exahaust hanging out everywhere looks cool especially if someone else is washing it and putting fuel in it. Who wants to be tired and broke at the same time. Cool factor will only carry you so far. I've owned Peterbuilt 378, Western Star, International Cabover,2 Frieghiner century's, and now a Volvo. The truck that made me the most money was the international cab over. Mostly sercumstantal. You'll get over that 20000 dollar premium for a 379. Volvo for 20 grand less, way more quiet and comfortable, and roomy than any over rated Pete I ever drove. If I was building a beater of a truck for mountain work I might go square hood, metal hood, but the external air cleaners from my experience have dusted more engines, mostly from faulty filter, and having two, you can run a rediculous time before changing. By the time you realize something is wrong it's to late. Those chrome riddled trucks invite you into a sickness that all you want to do is polish your chome, drive faster, buy more fuel, and look cooler. Nothing good for your pocket book. It will keep you motivated to drive more which brings you to the,"If I work harder than the next guy than surely I'm making money mentality". "If I'm tired I must be making money". "I got a cool truck I must be successful". Burning more fuel is a big deal. And the cool factor is like devorceing your wife that you have a family with and a life with, for some young pretty fun girl that spends all your money on clothes and boobs,so you can haul her dumb ass around and think your cool because you have her. All the while the successful people of the world know your a dumb ass.

Sorry square hood guys. Just thought I would give this guy another perspective. I've been on both sides of this deal. Luckily I got over being cool before I got a new wife and family.
Keep your head and be successfull.

You are correct. It is a mentality, and I see both sides of that fence too. Of all the people who always have problems and nothing but complaints about everything around them but themselves and their situation -- The ones who have the MOST problems are the square-nose, gotta-look good, want more more more power and everything else guys. 450hp is not enough for them,.. 500hp is not enough for them,.. hell 600hp is not enough for them -- I see them comming from a mile away and try to avoid them like the plague!

Those kinds of truck owners CANNOT BE SATISFIED!!! -- PERIOD!!! It is their mentality! and it all starts with that goddamn old-school looking chrome POS of a truck from yesteryear that gets them into this way of thinking. It is sad to say the least. -- They are always bragging, always complaining about another cracked head gasket, and another complaint about getting less than 6 mpg, and bitch like hell non-stop about trucks who drive slower than them getting in their way because they know nothing about slowing down and actually making a damn decent dollar!. -- Just about every single person I have met who has those kinds of trucks who does cross-country highway driving with dry-van, reefer, flat-bed, and step-deck operations is driving down the freeways with what might as well be a hole in their fuel tank and you can't convince them that what they are doing is costing them 3x more than it should, and that all the guys who have been there, and learned those lessons are now making fun of them and shaking their heads.

I do have to praise those kinds of trucks though -- I really do,.. because if everybody have efficient trucks, then the fuel sur-charge rates would drop. -- So go ahead Mr. square nose, barely break 6 mpg truckers!-- go ahead and drive 70+ down the freeways all day with those square nose POS's, and go ahead and fund those guys in Dubai who are wasting all your oil money you have contributed towards their luxurious man-made islands and $300,000 police cars,.. Here is the empire you are helping to build...



Enjoy that scenery,.. You paid for it! -- I know I didn't, I think they are already too rich and am not going to contribute a single dime I don't have to to those already rich bas#tards. That is my personal protest to them.

====

This is just my own personal view on it, and always has been. I WILL ALWAYS BE A PROPONENT OF SLOWING DOWN AND SAVING FUEL!. THAT IS MY PROTEST AGAINST THE ALREADY RICH BAS3TARDS OF THE WORLD WHO THINK THEY CAN TAKE ALL OUR HARD EARNED MONEY while we become a slave to the system. - My protest against them is to DRIVE LESS THAN 60 MPH OUT OF SHEER PROTEST IF NOTHING ELSE as much as possible at all times and to convince others to do the same. The more people I can get to slow down, drive more safely, and actually consume less fuel, the more I have stuck it to them, and you want to know who wins!? -- The guy who follows my lead and gets to have some money to take home. This is much better than giving it away every time you fuel, every time you have an issue with your truck because it was beat to death from the roads, and every time you pass by that shinny new thing designed mostly just to make you buy it. - Where does it end? -- With YOU!

For every person that I can convince to NOT own trucks like that, slow down, drive safer, become better, more profitable, etc. and actually KEEP THE MONEY THEY EARN, is one more person that has stood up against this kind of mentality that is designed to do nothing but use peer pressure to brainwash people into being a fuel-sucking big-nose slave. -- Gotta have that new iphone, or that new car, or that big square truck, gotta, gotta, gotta,-- that mentality CANNOT be satisfied and big-oil knows it,. You are a slave to it, and the system has trained you to be that way from birth. -- I say -- WAKE UP and break that way of thinking!.

Remember, these are just my own views, no one has to agree with them. It is simply my own way of encouraging others to think about what they want out of their careers and what they do.

[axe]

(03-28-2017 )JEastonjr Wrote:  Hi folks, New to the world o Rawze.
Thank for accepting me into your world.
My name is Jay and I'm wanting to be OO.
My question is with all the problems motors are having, Would be better to get a older truck with a few miles (800 to a mil) pre emission and spending to rebuild it.
I'm thinking Pete 379 cat c15 pre emission twin tubro. A well maintained truck.
I hope I'm being clear enough.
Want to hear all comments good or bad.
Thanks

If you are planning on rebuild, then why pre emission truck? Why not rebuild de-mandated truck and be done. You can buy an emissions truck with 4-500,000 miles now very cheap. MM it inframe and truck on. Now if you are borrowing money to buy a truck, then that's a different story. A lot of guys on here myself included bought trucks, had the mandate removed and problems got worse. Rawze will tell you his self, most people who start having trouble and remove mandate the problem gets worse, because the damage is already done. MM is not a cure all for a sick ISX. The engine is in bad shape before you know it and MM will bring those problems out in a hurry. I would have quit trucking if not for Rawze and this web site. The enginr is like your heart. It quits your dead. All the other crap can be fixed but the engine can be very costly and break you fast. What I'm saying is the ISX can be tuned to give great service and fuel economy if done quick enough. Don't think your going to go buy a used truck that looks great and has low miles and mm it and live happily ever agter, because a lot of times that's not the case. Sometimes it is but many people on here can testify to what I am telling you. These new trucks have put many people out of business because of lack of knowledge. The type and style of truck is the last thing I look at. The first is the shape of the engine. You can make money with a 379, just not as much as something more fuel efficient. You can make money with a pre emission truck, just not as much as with a properly tuned newer engine. My personal experience is if buying a used late model emission truck you better be ready to spend some dollars. Now if you can make it over that hump then you got something. MM engine, custom engine re-build, maintain it and drive it right and you have the base needed to make money. Most first time truck owners don't have those kind of resources. Think this thing out. Don't run out here and buy a truck and go broke because of lack of knowledge. Are you going to lease truck on somewhere? Are you going to run under your own authority? Do you have operating and maintenance money put back? My advice to young guys lately has been hire on with mega company, get the benefits and insurance and save your money because it is very hard to make it this day and time. Now you could get lucky. Go to used truck lot pick out pretty truck and truck on. Or you could go to truck lot pick out pretty truck. Go to work. Start having emission probs. MM it. Then notice you have to add water evry few days. Then notice you have a little blow by and its using a little more oil than it did. Then you come on Rawze.com and start reading and studying. Your engine is wore out and needs re built. Can you afford to be off work 1-3 weeks and a 12 to 26,000 dollar repair? Go buy older truck with pre emission engine. Runs good is in good mechanical shape. Your new to the game so you don't know the ropes yet. Profit margin is small because fuel mileage isn't all that great. Probaly making about as much as company driver for mega fleet. Do you want all the hassle of owning your own truck for that kind of money? What happens is maintenance does not get done on truck because money is short. Truck starts breaking down. Your sitting not making money. Bills start to pile up. Wife is pissed, she cant get ger nails done. Get the picture here? Being an owner op is a tough game these days, especially being new to the game. Whole different ball game than driving someone elses truck. The cards are stacked against you. Do the research, think things through, talk to successful truckers, have a game plan, and have a stash of cash. So the question is, you wanna gamble?

[389driver]

This topic is right in my wheelhouse...I have a mix of older and newer (de-mandated) trucks. There are pro and cons to both.

It all boils down to your operation. Period.

If you're going over-the-road, then an older truck probably isn't a good idea. Short of replacing EVERY SINGLE THING during a rebuild on an older truck, you are going to have problems arise - and often. Little nickel and dime stuff, but problems nonetheless. If you want to run an older truck (well, really any truck for that matter), you MUST be willing and able to do most repairs yourself. Downtime and labor for repairs will eat your lunch. OTR is also where a long hood can and will break you. The rates are typically lower, and you're running more miles, so fuel mileage becomes VERY important. Racking up the miles quickly on an already older truck can make for headaches too.

Now, if your work is local/regional, then an older truck may be a wiser option. My operation is pretty much all within a 200 mile radius of my yard, with about half of my freight running within 50 miles of home. All out and back. So, my trucks are never too far away if they have problems. 99.9% of the time I can fix a truck in the evening when it gets back, or have it swing by the shop in the middle of the day if need be. In 14 years I've only had to have a truck towed 3 times knock on wood. I'm running 10 trucks ranging in age from 1997 through 2009 and ranging from 350,000 to 1.6 million miles on them. There is ALWAYS something wrong with one of them. Hardly a week goes by that I don't have a small list of things to take care of on a Saturday when the trucks aren't running. Now, part of this is because I am picky about maintenance. I think Rawze would be proud of me for my maintenance practices if for nothing else. If something is broken - no matter how small- it gets fixed and fixed RIGHT. Old trucks are OK - IF YOU KEEP THEM UP. It doesn't take long to have a pile of junk on your hands if you let the little things go. I've only ever bought 1 brand new truck from my Peterbilt dealer, but they love me from the huge parts bill I rack up every month.

My operation is also why I can get away with running 379/389 Peterbilts when talking about fuel mileage. The shippers and receivers I work for are usually only open from 7am to 5pm and sometimes not even that long. I do local transfer work, so the name of the game is to get as many loads in a day as you can. So losing out on a load because you slowed down to gain MPG can cost you more than you saved in lost revenue. As with most local work, the per mile rate is higher than OTR work. If I lose out on 75 miles per day at $2.00+ per mile in an effort to save $40 in fuel then I'm not using my head. My trucks are loaded to 80,000 lbs (sometimes more), and do ALOT of stop-and-go through the day. Factors such as these (and more) can quickly overcome aerodynamics as the major contributing factor in fuel mileage. Case in point: The local Freightliner dealer was trying to get my business and let me use a 2015 Cascadia with a 500HP DD15 for a week t try to prove I could save money in fuel. After a week the Cascadia achieved a whopping 1/10th mile per gallon better than my CAT powered 379's. After you factored in the cost of DEF, the Cascadia was MORE expensive to operate. I must add though that my 389 with a CM871 running M*M@2 gets 6 MPG compared to my CAT powered trucks' 5-5.2 MPG.

My decision to run long hood trucks is influenced by a number of things:

-They do hold up better to harsh environments vs. aero trucks. A 379 Peterbilt with a million miles on it will be in better shape than a Cascadia, Prostar, etc.

-It is MUCH easier to work on a long hood. The engine is right out in the open. No cramped spaces when doing any kind of engine work. I can have a transmission out of one of my trucks in 3 hours. They're just easier.

-It's easier to keep drivers. My experience has been that drivers will tend to give up a little bit of pay to drive a big hood. Plus, they stick around longer. My turnover is virtually zero - not to mention I've got a very good group of guys. Good help IS hard to find, and at least for me - a long hood does help with that problem to a degree.

-They hold their value. I have trucks that are worth as much or more than I paid for them 4 and 5 years ago. If you have a flat top 379 with a 13/18 speed and a C15 that is in any kind of decent shape you can get $40K for it all day long regardless of how many miles are on it. 5 years ago you could pick those trucks up for $30-35K. If it's had a recent Platinum overhaul with the 4 year warranty you can get $50-55K for one if it's solid. Now, I don't see trucks as an investment, but it is a factor to consider nonetheless.


Having said all that, the best advice I can give is to find a CM871 powered truck and do what needs to be done to it. With M*M@2 it'll blow any yellow motor away in driveability AND fuel economy. Plus you can typically get them bought cheaper. Whatever chassis you decide to run should be dependent on what type of operation you are in.

[in2trux]

Old joke,
"If you want to make a million dollars in trucking, start with 2 million "

Dont buy a twin turbo Cat!
Accert has lots of problems and Cat got out of the on highway market for a reason!

You're not going to be the lucky one and pick the right truck. Everybody thinks they're going to reinvent the wheel.

If you're not driving the truck you're fixing it, while you're fixing it you're not making money.
Then there's the business itself. Keeping the books, making sure you're getting paid.
After all that maybe you'll find some free time.

You would be shocked at how fast you can go through $20-25,000 even if you have it,
it takes along time to get it back!

[Waterloo]

Knowing what I know now, 2008 ProStar CM-871, and having all of you guys here... If I was to buy another truck, it would have the CM-871 in her. Once the mandate is gone, and an in frame, it is a very reliable motor that will and can get the job done. The rest of the truck... ? Yes, I would buy another ProStar, as I know all of its faults and now have most of the needed tools to maintain her. It gets easier and easier to work on, and the problems are now fewer and fewer. Now it is just regular maintenance and keeping ahead of things, like a truck should be.