Blue ox

[tree98]

Well Rawze will be along soon with your info.

[Unilevers]

ive used blue ox before, they work well and are a decent product.

There are applications where a Gated holset on a isx works well. If you have high Duty cycle demands and constant heavy torque loads a VGT isnt for you.

I too never understood why people put that 171702 non gated borg on a highway truck. Only thing i can think of is its 1/2 the price of a HX60? i dunno

Wire the blue ox into the 3rd stage jake driver to power the relay that fires the blue ox. Dont put it directly behind the turbo use the little piece they sell that sets it back a few inches. If you haul heavy make sure you set your guillotine closing to be safe all around for manifold pressure. Dont run the butterfly ones as they always stick.

There are benefits for both VGT and gated straight turbos on ISX's. Just they have specific applications.

I have built, tuned, and been part of THOUSANDS of ISX engines. I do know what im talking about. first rule is learn some humility on people that are trying to help you, you wouldnt be here if you had it all figured out.

[trucklogger2]

(07-30-2019 )Pratt Wrote:  Not one of you answered my original question not even close three you didnt even know what I was talking about but still you ran your mouth I'm looking for info not attitude

Your answer is no dood, just use a plastic bag as a parachute out the window when you need extra holdback! Cheers.

[Pratt]

(07-30-2019 )Unilevers Wrote:  ive used blue ox before, they work well and are a decent product.

There are applications where a Gated holset on a isx works well. If you have high Duty cycle demands and constant heavy torque loads a VGT isnt for you.

I too never understood why people put that 171702 non gated borg on a highway truck. Only thing i can think of is its 1/2 the price of a HX60? i dunno

Wire the blue ox into the 3rd stage jake driver to power the relay that fires the blue ox. Dont put it directly behind the turbo use the little piece they sell that sets it back a few inches. If you haul heavy make sure you set your guillotine closing to be safe all around for manifold pressure. Dont run the butterfly ones as they always stick.

There are benefits for both VGT and gated straight turbos on ISX's. Just they have specific applications.

I have built, tuned, and been part of THOUSANDS of ISX engines. I do know what im talking about. first rule is learn some humility on people that are trying to help you, you wouldnt be here if you had it all figured out.

Thank you you've been very helpful this truck is not hiway application for the most part 90% offroad mountain driving not super heavy loads but lots of up and lots of down truck works and runs very well I just believe brakes are for stopping not slowing down so more engine brake is required

[Rawze]

(07-30-2019 )Pratt Wrote:  Omg the vgt turbos are a good idea but a shi#t and I mean shi#t product I put on 2 of them and they dont last for anything so dont try to tell me how wonderful they are the truck runs like a top and fuel economy is better now

Holset VG turbo's are a solid product. they easily last typically 600k+ miles or more even under heavy use and high HP applications, and longer on trucks where they are well cared for. - Matter of fact, someone called me up today and said their has lasted 970,000 miles. -- There is nothing wrong with them except when they are abused or improperly programmed after a de-mandate has been done.

Your previous post clearly screams to everyone that The thing that likely killed your turbo(s) is the same exact repeating story of people with the typical bad-delete, turbo-killing programming that is all over the Internet these days. But ... you seem to have some kind of serious attitude and serious denial issues there, so there is no convincing someone that has been brainwashed in this bad-delete, turbo-killing garbage thinking attitude pig-headedness.

No one here is on here was trying to argue with you, your own posts point clearly to what some of your problems are and you chose to quickly argue it away, blaming hardware for piss-poor programming and sheer social-media-style of garbage ignorance due to some serious lack of proper education on this subject...

,,... Others on here are genuinely trying to help you understand that what your saying is actually incorrect... and for most highway applications,.. You sereusly are knocking that modern engine into the stone age by taking that Holset VG off the enigne. -- There are only very rare circumstances or applications that a non-VG would perform as well, and like others pointed out, an HX60 is usually the better choice over a Borg-weener.. So don't be so damn quick to dis-credit what others have said here... I will simply ban you for doing so because what they say has a lot of merit.

now,.. non-vg or not,.. your still likely facing bad programming in that thing, your earlier posts scra=eam at everyone this problem, it has been seen a hundred times on here, otherwise,.. A)> you would not have been so quick to dump that VG turbo that is well capable of handling any power settings of that engine when programmed properly. If you had to throw the VG off the truck because they kept failing, then that is a very clear sign that it was not programmed properly, and that the rest of your programming is just as bad...

The people here are trying to educate your obvious short-sighted view-point, nothing more. If you disagree then you are the one to suffer its fate, when your engine fails a few times and your pig-attitude costs you several tens of thousands of dollars a few times over in the next few years.

Lastly, I will simply ban your arsse if you continue to be so arrogant and ignorant, simply because I do not want others who do not know any better, or those trying to research this subject to follow the advice of this bad information you have spewed onto my forum... You have been warned.

here are some words of wisdome to chew on..../

Marajin Wrote:--- Since many delete companies do not know how to correctly re-program the turbocharger, they most often will encourage its removal and promote some less-efficient Borg-Werner undersized 12-lire turbo, or some other crap like the Big-Boss (re-labeled borg Werner) along with after-market manifolds etc. These after-market mods ACTUALLY CREATE LOWER ENGINE EFFICIENCY AND LESS POWER CAPACITY THAN THE FACTORY COMPONENTS!. This is all in the name of runing up the price of the delete with component sales and it stems from them being simply too stupid to re-program the Holset correctly to begin with. This is especially apparent when someone knows that the factory Holset turbochargers on the CM870/871can easily keep up with the engine well into the 800+HP range all on their own, and that even the smaller Holsets on the newer CM2250/2350 engines are well capable of 700+Hp. Even if someone was building an engine for competition, and exceeding these limits, a BIGGER VG HOLSET will still out-perform anything else out there.

reference: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...01#pid5901


-- My suggestion is that if you want ot know the definitive answer to weather or not you would actually benefit form a non-VG on a modern engine,.. you need to look at your lifetime engine load history in Insite. -- If the lifetime engine load is anywhere less than about 70-80%, then you loose by going NON-VG, and if it is down in the typical 40% range (or less) like most trucks in the USA,.. then you will loose out on tens of thousands in fuel losses every year because of what you have done, it is simple as that. - If you gained efficiency or mileage by taking off that Holset,.. THEN IT WAS CLEARLY PROGRAMMED INCORRECTLY!!! -- PERIOD!!!... BECAUSE BORG-WEENER HAS NOT MADE A TURBO THAT CAN ACTUALLY BEAT A PROPERLY PROGRAMMED HOLSET IN SEVERAL YEARS NOW!!! -- THIS IS FACT!!!, and it falls right back into that hole of bad programming you seem to have over-looked.

[Pratt]

It went through 2 before it was ever deleted and 1 after

[Rawze]

(07-30-2019 )Pratt Wrote:  It went through 2 before it was ever deleted and 1 after

Then you have been doing something very wrong with them. Instead of finding the actual cause/issue, you chose to cover it up / band-aide it. Properly running and cared for engines do not have such issues.

You will not win this discussion, nor convince anyone on here of such. Your replies are only a sign of stubbornness. There are more than a few hundred people on this forum with Holset VG turbo's, modern engines with proper programming and properly cared-for engines that do not have such issues with them at all. This includes likely hundreds of people who have de-mandated trucks, some of them for a million miles+ on here.

I have 1.3 million miles on my own truck, it is on its second turbo (was changed at 580,000 miles in) and I was actually the cause of the first one's shortened demise myself. If not for that, it likely would have made it to 800k or more miles. - By shutting off my truck when the turbo and exhaust system it was very hot one day (middle of a regen cycle, like 800 degrees hot), like an idiot, I was not thinking when I did so. That would have killed/carbonized the bearing in any turbo, nonetheless my particular VG. - Aside form that, this second one has been on there now for more than 700,000 miles now and still going strong. - i removed the actuator and did a thorough inspection of the turbo itself about a month ago or so,.. it is still in good shape and the VG arm moves smoothly still. - i replaced all the bearings in the controller, re-soldered the board, and gave it a make-over to extend its life. - Thing works like a dream still and i am still busting 8 - 9 mpg all day long with 80,000 lbs in a 53' dry-box. there is no way in hells creation i could get anywhere near that kind of fuel mileage if i had taken that VG off my engine,.. it would have cost me half my fuel mileage and most of my profits, as I haul low-rent freight.

I hyper-mile all my loads, that is where my money is because I don't like killing myself or my truck to make a dollar... i also like to take time off, so I squeeze every dime out of what I do so that i can enjoy life instead of pissing away against the grain all the time.

[marek4792]

Repeated turbo failure is usually a symptom of a bigger problem like bad programming sensors and 7th injector that were never changed when they should've been and all that cascades into a plugged DPF or one that has holes drilled through instead of being completely hollowed out which causes excessive backpressure and poof goes the turbo! look up the EGR tuneup video on here.

[05ISX450]

(07-30-2019 )Pratt Wrote:  Omg the vgt turbos are a good idea but a shi#t and I mean shi#t product I put on 2 of them and they dont last for anything so dont try to tell me how wonderful they are the truck runs like a top and fuel economy is better now

Were the vgt turbos rebuilds, or brand new turbos ?