ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems
11-17-2018, (Subject: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems ) 
Post: #82
RE: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems
(10-13-2016 )Hammerhead Wrote:  This is cross posted from the Shimmed Oil Pump thread as well...

So I finally got off me fat azz and finally installed my Spinner II 996 Bypass filter. Should have done this years ago, but I was told that ISX's do not produce enough oil pressure to properly propell the centrifuge. I spent some time on the phone with a very knowledgeable person from their tech support, and he said that info was wrong. A stock ISX oil pump will propell the centrifuge, but it will only run about 34-3500rpm. The optimum is 4500+, so it will work, but it's efficiency won't at its peak. Anyhoo...
As everyone here probably knows, I have shimmed my oil pump with the US$0.80 trick. I started the truck after the install was almost complete. I had the return line plumbed it, the air supply run and connected, the oil IN to the Spinner connected and the feed line ran. I did NOT connect the feed immediately. I ran the truck for about 1/2hr to achieve (close to) operating oil temp of 170*. I was running the DataLogger on Insite, so my oil pressure at 1200rpm was 47.0-47.9psi. I then shut the truck down, pulled the #5 feed port plug and installed the port fitting and connected the supply hose. Again on Insite running the DataLogger at 1200rpm my oil pressure was 45.8-46.4, giving a parasitic loss of 1.2-1.5psi of pressure loss to run a (rated) 2 gal/min Spinner bypass filter. According to the chart in the install instructions with 45psi it should be spinning the centrifuge at about 53-5400rpm and flowing about 1.7-1.8 gal/min.
Actually not as much pressure loss as I had expected it to be.
Note, this is on a fresh oil change with Rotella 15W40 and 1 gallon on Sta-Lube 80W90.

I would like to say thank you for all the info that you have just given me. I have been looking at putting this same centrifuge on my truck (2011 Prostar w/871) for some time now and think I will be buying it when I get back home. I have just one question about how you installed it (please forgive me, I'm somewhat of a rookie when it comes to turning wrenches on engines and not aircraft), and that is you mentioned that you put a shim on your oil pump to increase you PSI. How do I go about doing that?
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11-17-2018, (Subject: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems ) 
Post: #83
RE: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems
(11-17-2018 )Mavrix Wrote:  ...
you mentioned that you put a shim on your oil pump to increase you PSI. How do I go about doing that?

here is how i did mine...




here is some more related info...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...3#pid29053


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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 Thanks given by: Hammerhead , Mavrix
11-19-2018, (Subject: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems ) 
Post: #84
RE: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems
(11-17-2018 )Mavrix Wrote:  I would like to say thank you for all the info that you have just given me. I have been looking at putting this same centrifuge on my truck (2011 Prostar w/871) for some time now and think I will be buying it when I get back home. I have just one question about how you installed it (please forgive me, I'm somewhat of a rookie when it comes to turning wrenches on engines and not aircraft), and that is you mentioned that you put a shim on your oil pump to increase you PSI. How do I go about doing that?

Just like Rawze shows in his video, only slightly different.
Because I dropped my oil pan and did it while the pump was mounted, I put the dimes in the pocket of the dogbone instead of down the bore.
This was my way of “capturing” them since I couldn’t guarantee a stack like Rawze with the pump removed and doing it vertically.
Other than that, exactly the same idea...


User's Signature: Why? Why do I always ask "why?" Because I can't learn or help teach others with "'cause I said so..."
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 Thanks given by: Rawze , Mavrix
02-07-2019, (Subject: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems ) 
Post: #85
RE: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems
(03-01-2016 )Rawze Wrote:  Are Bypass Oil systems (Like ops/Gulf coast/Amsoil/Etc.) Good for the ISX CM871?,...

Opinion: For filtration--YES,...For extended oil drains---NO!

I agree with Cummins that extended oil changes are not so good for the engine to some extent. Most bypass oil systems for these type of engines are sold with the promise of spending less money on oil changes. While I agree that extra filtering is very good for these engines, and feel that it is absolutely necessary for any EGR engine, the extended oil change claims, I do not agree with.

My own truck even has a bypass oil filter on it. I installed a less expensive $350 Amsoil bypass system to help combat the soot that was constantly getting into my oil. If your running an engine with EGR, then by all means, any system designed to lower soot levels in your oil will help the motor by a large amount. What I do not agree with, is extended oil changes.

Not changing the oil for 100k+ miles presents some serious risks to the engine in my, and from what I have read, Cummins's opinion, best I can tell. Without regular draining intervals of the oil, sediment will easily collect in places in the engine like the ends of cross-drillings and the bottom of the motor/oil pan. Over time, combined with heat from operation, this sediment/additive settling will separate from the oil and harden, creating the potential for lots of secondary problems. The second problem, is that after 20,000 miles,.. 30,00 miles, 50,00 miles,..etc etc. -- The suspended wear metals in the oil will keep building up higher and higher. The argument of the bypass oil guys is that it is harmless, and the particles are tiny, but in fact it is actually harmful. Having lots and lots of tiny iron and other wear metals suspended in your oil for long periods of time can and will take its toll on components.

Regular oil changes keeps wear metals at bay. It cannot be a good thing to have higher than normal amounts of iron, chromium, and all the other wear metals, compared to the amount you typically see in a 12,000 mile oil sample. Extended oil changes results in typically 3-5x higher than normal suspended wear metals in the oil on a constant basis. There is no convincing me that this is good at all. I base a lot of this on the fact that I used to work heavily with OEM high precision hydraulic systems. I have seen many companies try to do synthetic+ extended oil change intervals on hydraulic systems in this same way. A lot of these same bypass system oil pushers try to market the industrial machinery sector too. When I was on the OEM side of this fence, I could see a very clear pattern. It always resulted in premature component failures, and the average warranty claims were higher by about 1/3 more. Fortunately for engines, they are much more forgiving in the abuse they can take, but this brainwashed marketing hype gives no excuse to such unnecessary torture to them.


Most all of these same companies/sales people will push you to use synthetic oil in the engine to boot. Synthetic oil is great stuff, but in the ISX, There are countless cases of overhead cam failures/pre-mature wear problems that have been blamed as an after-effect of extended changes + synthetic oil in these motors, especially when combined with Lucas. The engine was designed to be used with high zinc oils like Shell Rotella-T or Delo-400. I have also had many engine mechanics say that they see a much higher rate of pre-mature cam failure in engines with synthetic, even when overhead adjustments are done regularly. There is no hard evidence for these claims at all, and I am not convinced this is actually the case, so I can only rely on my own experiences when it comes to synthetic/extended oil drain intervals when referring to only the engine.

I myself tried to run my engine with extended oil changes and synthetic, and I could tell the engine did not like it after 30k + miles on the same oil. The engine ran noisier, especially under heavy torque, even with a good bypass system. The sound difference was subtle, but I could hear and feel a distinct difference while driving my truck. I tried to narrow it down, but couldn't. I changed filters, replaced a couple gallons of oil, and even did extensive oil sampling via a lab, but found nothing that could explain the change in sound.


Many truck owners who pay attention to the sound of their engine can say this same thing...

"When the engine gets a fresh oil change, you can just hear the difference right away. It is much quieter and smoother sounding..."

Somehow though, changing the oil Always quieted my engine again. Then, after about 20,000 miles or so, that "rougher" sound would always start to come back again. I never could solve this, and have had many people try to tell me it was just me, but dammit!!! Its MY truck!, I drive it all day, every day, and I can tell when something isn't quite right. I have a damn good ear for it, and can even hear when the oil needs changing from laying in the bunk in the back, while the wife drives. I know that change in sound, subtle as it may be, that only fresh oil can cure. Call me a crack pot on this particular one, but I am not going to play with this,...Not on my truck any-ways, so I gave up trying to figure it out.

A truck running very well combined with good custom tuning can easily keep the oil much cleaner all on its own. This can be so much so, that the oil does not really even turn dark any more. I have seen many trucks that the oil stays the same color as the bottle (light yellow) for at much as 15,000 miles or more. this is possible and repeatable, but not without some serious work and tuning to ensure everything is at its peak performance. No amount of bypass filters can make up for this.

In the past, I have always changed the oil in my vehicles when it darkened to about 50% of its original color. I have always done this for every vehicle I have owned since back in the 80's when I got my first car. When I purchased my truck (it was brand new), I could change the oil and it would be black as soon as it cranked up. I absolutely hated this, and set out to solve it by various methods including bypass oil filters.

One of the biggest problem was soot getting into the oil all the time. I tried to purchase a gulf-coast filter system, but there was no where on my truck for it to mount easily. I also looked into a few other brands, and ended up getting one of the cheaper Amsoil filter systems. Even this less expensive system dropped my soot levels tremendously. My soot ratings from sampling went from 2.4-2.8 every 25k miles to 0.54. The bypass filter certainly knocked the soot out of my motor, so yes, it helped a ton, but it did not keep my oil from looking black in color all the time. It was a lot of fine tuning. etc. that did that.

I have been running Shell Rotella-T in my motor now for 960,000+ miles now, and when I ran my overhead at 890k miles, there was not much wear on my overhead cams at all. Many of the lobes are just starting change color, some not even showing signs of polishing yet. Because of this,...the oil I am using works just fine for me, and I am not about to waste money on synthetic, just to dump it out after 30k miles. I do use a gallon of good gear lube in my oil at every oil change to help lower turbo temps and thicken the oil slightly. I do this to raise the hydraulic pressure rating of the oil, and take up any excess gap between the components due to the age of the engine. I use no other oil additives in my engine, and I do not believe Lucas is good for my motor because it dilutes the engine oils already precious additives. At least some gear oil has additives, unlike Lucas.


For those blind optimists reading this who think there is no engine life penalty associated with extended oil change intervals, the best data available disagrees strongly. In a study performed by the Cummins Inc., where 9 engine power tests were performed on engines which had different oil change intervals of 12,000 and 25,000 miles. Diesel road tractor engines have very large sump capacities, and their oil change intervals are naturally longer than for other consumer vehicles, so optimum intervals needed to be tested. Here are their results...



Figure 1 - Engine Power Loss as a Function of Oil Change Interval

Figure 1 graphically illustrates how after 300,000 miles with regular 12,000-mile oil changes there is a small 2% average across the board power lost due to wear. Also the overall parasitic friction loss is lower, which raises the available power at high rpms. On the other hand, When the oil change interval was only done at 25,000 miles, even at a lower total accumulated mileage of 250,000, the power loss at all engine speeds due to engine wear is dramatically higher, averaging over 10%!. This means there roughly, is a 10% loss in power due to wear alone over time simply because of not changing your oil often enough, especially as the engine gets older. Cummins themselves, clearly show that their recommendation to change the oil every 25,000 miles CAUSES MORE THAN NORMAL WEAR!.

Do the right thing,.. change your oil based on your fuel consumption instead of regular mileage intervals.

Here is what I would recommend to others based on what I have seen..

If your average fuel mileage every 10,000 miles is ...

less than 5 MG -- Change your oil every 8,000 miles or so.

5 - 6 MPG -- Change your oil every 10,000 - 12,000 miles or so.

6 - 7 MPG -- Change your oil every 12,000 - 15,000 miles or so.

7 - 8 MPG -- Change your oil every 15,000 - 18,000 miles or so.

8 - 9 MPG -- Change your oil every 18,000 - 22,000 miles or so.

above 9 MPG -- Change your oil every 22,000 - 28,000 miles or so.

These recommendations are based on more than just engine wear alone. They are based on getting the most engine life vs the cost of oil changes themselves, and the fact that soot and other deposits are going to keep building up in your engine more rapidly than you can flush them out. A bypass oil filter system can extend this, but not by the claims they are making. You would be good to get an extra 8,000 - 10,000 miles on your oil before having to change it anyways. That is my experience on it, and is what I tell others that ask about these types of systems, etc.

Maybe this article helps others out there, your own experiences may differ. this is just what I see when taking a hard look at it. -- Rawze

Tags:
bypass filter, oil filter, soot problems, bypass system, oil change interval, amsoil filter, power loss, filter clogging, oil change interval, oil change, extended oil change
How did you hook the bypass filter up? I’m buying one and picking it up tomorrow at a distribution center. Thanks
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02-08-2019, (Subject: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems ) 
Post: #86
RE: ISX and Bypass Oil Filter Systems
(02-07-2019 )Bryanluster1 Wrote:  How did you hook the bypass filter up? I’m buying one and picking it up tomorrow at a distribution center. Thanks

similar to this...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...07#pid1907

and...

http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...67#pid3167


User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!.
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 Thanks given by: Bryanluster1





  
  
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