| Turbo |
| 06-18-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #19 | |||
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| RE: Turbo Your turbo isn't the problem, your tune is. I know you've heard it before but if you've read anything on this forum you should've known. My 2350 doesn't climb much past 750 degrees and boost peaks around 38psi going through the gears but pulls back to about 31psi in a sustained pull. User's Signature: That’s pronounced, /ˈs(k)izəm/ | |||
| 06-18-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #20 | |||
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| RE: Turbo Yeah bad tune, get that straightened out ASAP. this guy your talking about that "tuned" it doesn't know JACK. User's Signature: im_seeing_parameters_in_my_sleep 1 | |||
| 06-18-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #21 | |||
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RE: Turbo (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: First sorry for the long post. im sorry but there is so much wrong with this post im scared to even start. The X15 can do 650-675 crank on its stock turbo, slightly warm but can be done. It does not need 40+ psi to make that power which is why you are getting so much pyro. your choking it off creating unneeded drive pressure and heat chasing boost psi - its all about flow. The fact that your charger has turned black scares me and im scared for you. 50+ psi on a engine thats over 19:1 compression ratio is terrifying. With a He561V installed on a 2350 or a X15 it can support 800 wheel HP and run respectable EGT's. Its all in the timing, fueling, vgt position, etc. It sounds as though you want to do it right, But if the ECM logic is beaten with a sledgehammer to do your bidding you lose full control of it and unpredictable results happen. My 0.02 but again im usually full of shi#t so take it for what its worth. | |||
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| 06-18-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #22 | |||
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| RE: Turbo My exhaust temps actually fall as rpms decrease. Boost goes up slightly to make this happen. You need to get it tuned correctly. 50 is ridiculous at any time. User's Signature: If it ain't broke, don't mean it won't be at some point. | |||
| 06-18-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #23 | |||
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| RE: Turbo Thanks for the response's guys and I know that the tune is not right and its getting better with each revision. I know that anything over 40psi is out of the map with this charger as Ive researched that. Thats why I was asking about a larger turbo. Which it looks like the 500 series will work IF we cant get things right with the stock charger. Tunes are getting changed on a weekly basis right now and moving in the right direction. Thank you. | |||
| 06-18-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #24 | |||
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RE: Turbo (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: Thanks for the response's guys and I know that the tune is not right and its getting better with each revision. I know that anything over 40psi is out of the map with this charger as Ive researched that. Thats why I was asking about a larger turbo. Which it looks like the 500 series will work IF we cant get things right with the stock charger. Tunes are getting changed on a weekly basis right now and moving in the right direction. You can keep lying to yourself all you want. Everyone on this forum is going to keep shaking their head at you. -- YOU ARE ONLY FOOLING YOURSELF AND THE GUY "TUNING" YOUR TRUCK IS COMPLETELY CLUELESS!!!! --- IN FACT, COMPLETELY BEYOND CLUELESS!!!! -- RUN LIKE F$KING HELL AWAY FORM THOSE GUYS IF YOU VALUE YOUR TRUCK AND ITS ENGINE AT ALL!!! I cringed about 6 times during your last post -- literally!. Your problem is that your destroying your engine and causing its slow agonizing death from clueless "guess-work" custom tuning.... HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE TO "GUESS AT PROPER BOOST AND COMBUSTION LEVELS" TO GET IT WHERE IT SHOULD BE? -- All this bulls$it about them "on the next try" combined with some arssehole telling you that 40LBS boost is "ok" is a complete sham and someone who knows NOTHING WHATSOEVER about that model engine!. You caught squarely in the "BAD DELETE CLUB" and you got the blinders on so you will not see it --- I hope you got a really fat wallet for the pre-mature inframe you are about to face.m That is certainly no way to run a trucking business!. User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!. | |||
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| 06-18-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #25 | |||
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| RE: Turbo I will attempt to address this a bit, but even if you don't believe me,... I can simply wait until your pop your engine a few times, cry about it, then come back and start asking how to get it right again after you have spent $20,000 - $30,000 over and over for a few inframes after trusting in your "so-called guru delete shop" guys. You have been brainwashed by some real idiots there it sounds like ... (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: Truck is a 2018 pete 388, yes its a 565/2050 X15. I was thinking it still might have been cm2350 as thats what it says on the ECM. Running tankers n dry bulk in the northwest up to 105,500 gross. First of all, to enlighten you a bit --- The new X-15 higher HP model has 19:3 compression ratio in it from factory, unlike ANY PREVIOUS MODEL ENGINES!. Not even the CM2350 does this, as it is tuchy as hell at its 18.9:1 ratio, and older engines that used the 500 series Holset turbochargers were down in the 17 and 16 ranges. -- In plain English -- THE X15 TAKES FAR LESS BOOST TO MAKE THE SAME POWER than any previous model engine... PERIOD!, so if some ignorant moron is stuffing in more than about 28-31 lbs boost AND on top of that, IT IS DE-MANDATED,... YOU ABUSING YOUR ENGINE VERY BADLY!!!. YOU CAN MAKE CLOSE TO 800 HP WITH ONLY roughly 31-32 LBS BOOST ON THAT MODEL ENGINE! ------------- (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ...That is fine and well, but there are so many BAD DELETE SHOPS out there talking a good game that it is not even funny,... YOU ARE A VICTIM OF BIG BRAGGING BIG NAME BAD DELETES! -- PERIOD!. And those guys in the "pick-up truck world" are EVEN MORE CLUELESS beyond belief!. --- YOU NEED TO RUN LIKE HELL AS FAST AS YOU CAN AWAY FROM THOSE CLOWNS!. ------------- (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ...Up to about 670HP is CAN EASILY BE DONE With the stock turbocharger on the X15 WITHOUT OVERHEATING ANYTHING!. The problems you describe clearly point to SEVERE OVER-BOOSTING AND CHOKING OF THAT ENGINE DUE TO BAD, ABUSIVE PROGRAMMING! ------------- (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ...Oil change interval should be based on current fuel mileage numbers usually. Just a reference here ... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...2#pid18152 ------------- (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ... Even at very high above hp ratings, pyro (post turbo) should only read about 950 or so, 1000+ is pushing things and 1200 IS TOO HIGH!. It is clearly running too hot!. -- WHY?--- SEVERE OVER-BOOSTING AND BAD PROGRAMMING on an engine that already has 19.3:1 compression ratio!. I would hate to see what your oil temps and other things are. (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ...This clearly points towards the delete shop/guy that is doing the "adjusting" with his golden electronic screwdriver that THEY ARE BEYOND CLUELESS! -- A COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT ENGINE! -- WTF? -- Do they think it has 16:1 compression and CDI injection? -- BLIND MIS-GUIDED IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST!!! --- MORONS!!!!! -- BEYOND MORONS!!! YOU HAVE A BAD DELETE AND YOU HAVE BAD PROGRAMMING BY A BUNCH OF IDIOT REDNECK PICK-UP TRUCK TUNERS HELL BENT ON DESTROYING YOUR $36,000 ENGINE!!! They obviously HAVE NO F$KING CLUE that engine has full HCCI injection in it, higher than normal compression ratios, light-weight composite pistons that are sensitive to abuse, etc.etc. nonetheless how to control it. Let em keep guessing,.. Are they going to pay for your inframe it is going to need in its very near future?. Are they going to supply you with free turbochargers on a regular basis as they fail repeatedly due to abusive overs-pooling due to bad programming and such blind ignorance? -- Your on the fast track to engine destruction. (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ...I would like to address this specifically, as there are a LOT OF IGNORANT TUNERS OUT THERE on other auto tuning forums who reference this same data/chart. That document + chart is a decent reference, but some of it is very misleading in reference with todays engines. The things like air-flow, the AR ratio chart and other things are correct, but the KW rating listing itself is VERY misleading. It is based on 16:1 - 16:3 compression ratio/older engines THAT ARE NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION!. What is important is the AR ratio and air flow capacity. I.E.> LESS BOOST REQUIREMENT FROM THE ENGINE results in a smaller turbocharger handling A HIGHER HP/KW CAPACITY!. The 400 series Holset falls squarely in the range of AR/flow ratings when considering the requirements of the CM2350 and the X15 engine. The engine maker did not "undersize" the turbocharger at all for the power rating you have. Here is some roughed-out info for the CM2350 (18.9:1 compression ratio) ... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...9#pid20049 Real world experience with them clearly points to the 400 series handling, peak, about 660-670HP on the CM2350. This would be the case with the X15 as well. - A 500 series on an X-15 will actually handle more power than the engine can produce without other serious mods. Anything larger than that would be negligible at best. For those who have application for it, (higher than normal average torque load applications), my earlier post still applies though... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...8#pid27848 (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: I drove a 2013 ISX set at 450 before this truck and never heard exh flowing thru the egt cooler but with this engine I could hear exh flowing through the cooler at anything over 1500 rpm and 20 psi. Sense that it shut off now all the exh is driving the turbo and causing high boost pressures. Measuring and monitoring the exhaust to intake pressure ratio will reveal this. The Pete 388 has a considerably large charge air cooler from the factory, it is NOT your problem there. That is, unless you were stupid and put on one of those restrictive "duraf%ck" after-market CAC units, those things have terrible air-flow. Your problem is that bad programming is over-boosting the crap out of your turbo. You have no clue what is or is not "ok" or "restrictive" at this point at all with regard to the truck components. ------------- (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ... I hate to say it but you have been around a bunch of blind ignorant clowns. Your squarely caught up in their ignorant ways. I don't tolerate such redneck dumbarsse tuning and mods that are hell bent on destroying the engine in the name of "power, deletes, and custom tuning". If you still disagree with what I have pointed out here, then I would suggest you go hang out on a tuning forum where such engine abusing crap takes place and they can argue bullshit like 50+ lbs boost and "dumping in fuel' is somehow ok for something with such high compression ratio and precision components ... In that case, this place may not be for you! (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: Goals for the truck is 575-600 to the ground and use it all day long and keep the EGT's fairly reasonable and MPG in the 5.5ish avg. long heavy unaerodynamic truck n trailers with losts of unload idle time at 900-1400 rpm.It sounds like your truck may be geared wrong for the operation you are performing with it. You never mentioned the gear ratio etc. You seem to be hell bent on big power,,.. and I understand that some guys are, but you are likely way over-thinking it and possibly looking AT MODIFYING THE WRONG DRIVE-LINE COMPONENT if what you have is not working out for you. A better rear ratio will ALWAYS outshine any mods you do to that engine, AND IT IS MUCH CHEAPER!. - Just mentioning this as a reminder. What is the gear ratio anyways? (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ... As to what leads me to believe the charge air is running to hot is the compressor has turned from the bright cummins red to a very dark maroon color.I think by now you have an idea what is wrong?---- BAD PROGRAMMING AND OVER-BOOSTING!. It is killing your engine and turbocharger, and you have best HOPE LIKE HELL that the permanent damage has not started taking place yet. After looking at that picture, I suspect damage has already been done though. It is likely a matter of time now. That much abuse and over-boosting will fret the liners right out of that thing in a hurry. Even after you get it right and straighten it out, it may still likely fail at this point based on what you have described. I don't know of anybody that would not cringe and not want to touch it based on just that alone. Your path to a pre-mature inframe seems to already be set, even if someone does straighten it out in the near future, just warning you. You, and the guys guessing at your programming blindly seem to be on a clear path of engine abusive destruction for the gain of a few HP,... Sad indeed!. (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ... Up to about 660HP is easily done in that engine with its already existing 400 series,.. WHY? -- Because of the already very high compression ratio,.. it requires less boost because of this. it will not even get close to overheating and causing the problems you are describing there,.. it is bad programming that has got you, not the turbo!. However ... The 400 series is not ideal for making 600+ hp and above. The 500 series will better suit an X15 engine that produces more than 600HP, however it is NOT MORE BOOST you looking for, but better charge flow rates. With a 500 series, it will require SLIGHTLY LESS BOOST PRESSURE to make the same HP as the 400 series did. The engine cannot exceed the flow capacity of a 500-series turbocharger (engine runs out of fueling capacity at just under 800 HP form what I have heard), but then again you will loose low-end response and loose overall fuel efficiency with it too. I.E.> It comes at a cost, hence my mention of changing rear end ratios so that you can get the engine up in the HP working band (1600+ rpm range) when going down the road and in hard pulls and out of its liner-fretting torque band (below 1400). Those idiots trying to tear your engine up with all their ignorant guess work is the actual problem. If they had any clue whatsoever how to tune an engine with the specifications of the combustion chamber and its injector design, they would have known these things and never let it get anywhere near that kind of boost pressure or the other things you describe. (06-18-2018 )Roberts388 Wrote: ... That is fastest way to tear up your engine!... PERIOD!. Those idiots are the pinnacle and the benchmark of BAD, ENGINE DESTROYING TUNING!. Here is a link your your education... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...3#pid19653 ---- I also added you to the "bad delete club" .. here is the link to that thread... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid13255 User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!. | |||
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| 06-19-2018, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #26 | |||
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| RE: Turbo After in framing my CM-871 TWICE, not due to tuning by the way, but having the wrong parts installed in my motor by the first shop... Dude, listen to these guys, I hope you have deep pockets. You are destroying your motor. I went to Rawze's house to in frame this truck, I just got her back on the road. I lived with the man and his family, he is telling you the truth, so is Unilever and everyone else here. I hung out at Mr Hagg's shop with Rawze, Haggai Automotive and Diesel down in Griffin GA. Motor after motor with these crap tunes, rolling abortions is how I refer to them. Cooked heads, busted liners, broken rods, destroyed crankshafts/cams and melted turbos. Dude, from what I have read, your engine is more than likely toast. I would PM Unilever, he is up in Camrose Alberta I believe. Maybe he could help, at least with an in frame. He would be the only man I would trust with that motor up your way. And get the hell away from that Edge tuning clown, before he puts a rod through the side of your block. I read "Edge tuner" and immediately cringed. Figure at minimum $30,000. Hopefully the block will be intact. Good luck. | |||
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| 11-14-2019, (Subject: Turbo ) Post: #27 | |||
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| RE: Turbo I haven’t had time to read all the posts but the ones I have read is.... This guy is someone’s Guinea pig. X15 is gonna cost a fortune to fix when they blow it up for him. I’m thinking max boost should be like 34. Meat head mentality. Power is nice to a point. When it cost you a 40k inframe you’ll be over it. Your way outside the realm of safe tuning on this experiment. | |||
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